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Originally Posted by Eusebius TheoGeek, Jesus never used the word "hell." He didn't speak English nor German. The English word "hell" which is of Germanic origin just meant "to cover." When the Germans would roof their house they would hell the house. When they would bury a dead person they would hell the person.
Jesus only used the word Gehenna. Gehenna was a trash dump in Jesus' day where fires here and there in the dump would be burning trash or flies and worms would be eating trash where the fire hadn't gotten to.
Then what was the meaning of the cross? Was it all to save us from a landfill site?
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Originally Posted by Theophane
Then what was the meaning of the cross? Was it all to save us from a landfill site?
People do not go to Gehenna (the trash dump) for not believing Christ died for their sins. Jews go to Gehenna during the 1,000 year reign due to what they do. Some of the nations will have their dead cadavers cast into Gehenna as well.
And it comes, according to the monthly quota in its month, and according
to the sabbath quota in its sabbath, all flesh shall come to worship before
Me in Jerusalem, says Yahweh." And they fare forth and see the corpses of
the mortals, the transgressors against Me, for their worm shall not die, and
their fire shall not be quenched, and they become a repulsion to all flesh."
(Isa 66:23-24)
Jesus died to save all mankind from sin and death.
God isn't a monster, but he is an infinite being. Why would you believe an offense against an infinite being would merit a finite punishment? Why would an offender deserve the mercy of annihilation?
Where in the bible does it ever state that if one sins against an infinite being they must deserve infinite punishment?
Let's bring this idea into our judicial system.
Let's say two children, ages 6 years of age, both stole from two different judges but stole the same piece of candy. Let's say the 1st judge is 20 years old but the second judge is 114 years old. Do you really think that their sentence should be based on the age of the judge and not the act itself?
Also, God accepted Jesus' death for every man, woman and child.
Maybe to you. For some of us that meaning is Love.
Scripture points out that Love must be the basis of anything or it is nothing.
If the Cross and Man who died on it only has meaning because of Hell, then that meaning is nothing.
No offense, but I would have a very sad life if hell was the only reason I gave a crap about Jesus. Perhaps it gives you purpose and joy, but it would be nothing but a spiritual death for me to think that way.
But shoot, in the end, I'll accept Christ to save my arse if love hasn't got anything to do with it. lol. Just when I thought I heard it all......
I'm glad the Bible doesn't say the wrath of God is hell.
Prior to the New Covenant, God's wrath was nothing less than hell. It was necessary for Jesus to defeat Satan on the cross thereby providing us with an alternative to hell-- where the Fall of Eden and the defunct Old Covevnant would have sent us.
People do not go to Gehenna (the trash dump) for not believing Christ died for their sins. Jews go to Gehenna during the 1,000 year reign due to what they do. Some of the nations will have their dead cadavers cast into Gehenna as well.
And it comes, according to the monthly quota in its month, and according
to the sabbath quota in its sabbath, all flesh shall come to worship before
Me in Jerusalem, says Yahweh." And they fare forth and see the corpses of
the mortals, the transgressors against Me, for their worm shall not die, and
their fire shall not be quenched, and they become a repulsion to all flesh."
(Isa 66:23-24)
Jesus died to save all mankind from sin and death.
When Jesus used the word 'Gehenna' He was not referring to the trash dump of that name. Rather, that trash dump called 'Gehenna' made a good picture of the lake of fire.
In Judaism, the Jewish concept of heaven is called 'Gan Eden.' Not a reference to the same garden of Eden where Adam and Eve were, but to the place where only the very righteous dead go immediately after death. It is called 'Olam Haba' - 'the world to come' - the afterlife, although the term 'Olam Haba' also refers to the messianic age when the resurrection of the dead occurs.
In contrast to 'Olam Haba', the average person and the wicked in Judaism go to Gehinnom - Gehenna. In Judaism, the souls of the wicked go to Gehenna for a period of 12 months and are then transferred to 'Gan Eden.' The exception is the very wicked. Jewish beliefs differ on what happens to them. They either remain in Gehenna or are destroyed.
'The period of time in Gehinnom does not exceed 12 months, and then ascends to take his place on Olam Ha-Ba.
Only the utterly wicked do not ascend at the end of this period; their souls are punished for the entire 12 months. Sources differ on what happens at the end of those 12 months: some say that the wicked soul is utterly destroyed and ceases to exist while others say that the soul continues to exist in a state of consciousness of remorse.'
Here is an excerpt from another source.
Gehinnom: A Jewish Hell
Only truly righteous souls ascend directly to Gan Eden, say the sages. The average person descends to a place of punishment and/or purification, generally referred to as Gehinnom.
The name is taken from a valley (Gei Hinnom) just south of Jerusalem, once used for child sacrifice by the pagan nations of Canaan (II Kings 23:10). Some view Gehinnom as a place of torture and punishment, fire and brimstone. Others imagine it less harshly, as a place where one reviews the actions of his/her life and repents for past misdeeds.
The soul's sentence in Gehinnom is usually limited to a twelve-month period of purgation before it takes its place in Olam Ha-Ba (Mishnah Eduyot 2:9, Shabbat 33a). This twelve-month limit is reflected in the yearlong mourning cycle and the recitation of the Kaddish (the memorial prayer for the dead).
Only the utterly wicked do not ascend to Gan Eden at the end of this year. Sources differ on what happens to these souls at the end of their initial time of purgation. Some say that the wicked are utterly destroyed and cease to exist, while others believe in eternal damnation (Maimonides, Mishneh Torah, Law of Repentance, 3:5-6).
Therefore, when Jesus spoke of Gehenna, the Jews knew that He was not referring to the garbage dump by that name, but was referring to the lake of fire. But in contrast to the belief of Judaism that Gehenna was a place where the average person was sent only temporarily and the very wicked were annhiliated, Jesus told them the truth of the matter which was that after being resurrected out of the Torments side of Hades at the end of the Millennium, the unbeliever will be sent body and soul into Gehenna - the lake of fire forever(Rev 20:11-15).
Last edited by Michael Way; 12-14-2011 at 02:32 PM..
The C-D forums are for everyone, period . . . so if you seek exclusive Christian forums they exist elsewhere.
I dont believe that to be true (so far). I have yet to find any Christianity thread in or out of City data that some atheist or agnostic hasnt wanted to add their 2 cents. If you happen to know of any forums or threads where only Christians are allowed please send them my way.
As for not saying "avoid hell" in the Bible, I see the warning of "eternal damnation" as a pretty good indicator of Hell being a place to avoid.
I am thankful that we have further revelation in the Christian scriptures that death is to be abolished one day and that the same all who died in Adam, will be made alive in Christ. (1 Corin 15) The whole creation is to be be delivered from corruption and changed into the glorious freedom of the children of God. (Romans 8). I believe that believers need to be preparing to shine as lights in the world, to prepare to reign with Christ. Christ is being glorified in us, the first fruits, but eventually the whole harvest will include the all men for whom Christ died. It is the work of God and not of ourselves. God bless.
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Jesus told them the truth of the matter which was that after being resurrected out of the Torments side of Hades at the end of the Millennium, the unbeliever will be sent body and soul into Gehenna - the lake of fire forever (Rev 20:11-15).
Rev: 20: 11 Then I saw a great white (A)throne and Him who sat upon it, from whose [a]presence (B)earth and heaven fled away, and (C)no place was found for them. 12 And I saw the dead, the (D)great and the small, standing before the throne, and [b](E)books were opened; and another [c]book was opened, which is (F)the book of life; and the dead (G)were judged from the things which were written in the [d]books, (H)according to their deeds. 13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it, and (I)death and Hades (J)gave up the dead which were in them; and they were judged, every one of them (K)according to their deeds. 14 Then (L)death and Hades were thrown into (M)the lake of fire. This is the (N)second death, the lake of fire. 15 And if [e]anyone’s name was not found written in (O)the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire.
This passage does not say that those cast in the lake of fire will be there forever. God bless.
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