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Now that I have read some of the posts, you are the first one before me to post the verse that emphatically teaches how ALL christians must be born again. Thanks for your explanation.
You're welcome Antredd. As incredible as it is, there are some who refuse to make the connection between the command to be born again in John 3:7 and the means by which one is born again as stated in John 3:15-16.
Now that I have read some of the posts, you are the first one before me to post the verse that emphatically teaches how ALL christians must be born again. Thanks for your explanation.
I do not know how you came to that conclusion antredd, when Mike is presuming that faith makes us born again. Can you point out where Jesus said this, at least to Nicodemus ?.
Yes He said you must be born again, He also said unless you are born again you cannot see or enter the Kingdom.
What He did not say was when you believe you become a born again Christian.
We have faith to see and enter the Kingdom because we are born of that Kingdom. What is of the earth is earth and what is born of the Spirit is Spirit.
It might read in many places in scripture by a literal reading that there is choice involved, but John 3 comes nowhere near saying you choose to be born again.
You and I had no choice with our natural birth and like wise all who are born again, for the natural types the spiritual.
I do not know how you came to that conclusion antredd, when Mike is presuming that faith makes us born again. Can you point out where Jesus said this, at least to Nicodemus ?.
Yes He said you must be born again, He also said unless you are born again you cannot see or enter the Kingdom.
What He did not say was when you believe you become a born again Christian.
We have faith to see and enter the Kingdom because we are born of that Kingdom. What is of the earth is earth and what is born of the Spirit is Spirit.
It might read in many places in scripture by a literal reading that there is choice involved, but John 3 comes nowhere near saying you choose to be born again.
You and I had no choice with our natural birth and like wise all who are born again, for the natural types the spiritual.
Just to add God is our Father and He's the midwife too, and choice has nothing to do with us being born again, neither does the will of man. Those who are being born again are born of/by God Himself.
I do not know how you came to that conclusion antredd, when Mike is presuming that faith makes us born again. Can you point out where Jesus said this, at least to Nicodemus ?.
Yes He said you must be born again, He also said unless you are born again you cannot see or enter the Kingdom.
What He did not say was when you believe you become a born again Christian.
We have faith to see and enter the Kingdom because we are born of that Kingdom. What is of the earth is earth and what is born of the Spirit is Spirit.
It might read in many places in scripture by a literal reading that there is choice involved, but John 3 comes nowhere near saying you choose to be born again.
You and I had no choice with our natural birth and like wise all who are born again, for the natural types the spiritual.
It is written, "Faith comes by hearing the word of God." Jesus spoke the word to Nicodemus and by having it recorded, also to us so that we might have faith and "marvel not" as if it is something imposible but rather just simply receive the Truth because God said it and that with Him all things [that God says] are possible to him who believes in what He says. It is the Spirit that quickens the word and makes it possible.
It is written, "Faith comes by hearing the word of God." Jesus spoke the word to Nicodemus and by having it recorded, also to us so that we might have faith and "marvel not" as if it is something imposible but rather just simply receive the Truth because God said it and that with Him all things [that God says] are possible to him who believes in what He says. It is the Spirit that quickens the word and makes it possible.
Gary you cannot separate the Spirit and the Living Word. Jesus said My words are Spirit and Life.
Faith is not something that instantly happens after you see or hear something,something was already bringing you to that place of faith before you ever heard a bible verse. God is the Gardner and He prepares the earth(man), before that quickening word (seed) planted springs forth and accomplishes what it is sent for.
From what I have read on here, most do not have a clue what being born again is, the best they can come up with is you are born again when you believe in Jesus, which is not what Jesus was saying to Nicodemus nor is it found in the bible.
Gary you cannot separate the Spirit and the Living Word. Jesus said My words are Spirit and Life.
Faith is not something that instantly happens after you see or hear something,something was already bringing you to that place of faith before you ever heard a bible verse. God is the Gardner and He prepares the earth(man), before that quickening word (seed) planted springs forth and accomplishes what it is sent for.
From what I have read on here, most do not have a clue what being born again is, the best they can come up with is you are born again when you believe in Jesus, which is not what Jesus was saying to Nicodemus nor is it found in the bible.
The creation itself bears witness to the power and glory of God and teaches us to have faith in God. So even in that witness man is without excuse but when that is ignored the Word also produces faith because God doesn't give up. Yes faith can already be there for many even before the word is preached. The word produces even more faith which can't hurd, I hope you would agree.
Now as to what Jesus said, look at the sum of what Jesus was saying. He was helping Nicodemus to see that being born again of the Spirit is eternal life through faith in Him
JN 3:7-15 "Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again. The wind blows where it lists, and you hear the sound thereof, but can not tell from where it comes, and where it goes: so is every one that is born of the Spirit. Nicodemus answered and said unto him, How can these things be? Jesus answered and said unto him, Are you a master of Israel, and do not know these things? Verily, verily, I say unto you, We speak that we do know, and testify that we have seen; and you receive not our witness. If I have told you earthly things, and you believe not, how shall you believe, if I tell you of heavenly things? And no man has ascended up to Heaven, but He that came down from Heaven, even the Son of man which is in Heaven. And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up: That whosoever believes in Him should not perish, but have eternal life."
This statement of believing in Him is the summation of how one is born of the Spirit to obtain eternal life. To be born of the Spirit is to have eternal life. Eternal Life is the Fruit of the Spirit and the greatest of the Fruit is love. It is written, "He that loves abides forever."
1PET 1:21-23 "Who by Him we do believe in God, that raised Him up from the dead, and gave Him glory; that your faith and hope might be in God. Seeing you have purified your souls in obeying the truth through the Spirit unto unfeigned love of the brethren, see that you love one another with a pure heart fervently: Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which lives and abides for ever."
I am puzzled, where did I say or imply that one can separate the Spirit from the Living Word?
The words of the Bible are only words per say but when God's Spirit anoints those words, then the words are Living as when spoken at first. Jesus quoted the O.T, often because He knew that what was written became fresh again because of the Spirit of the Lord that was upon Him and so it works the same way today. God speaks to the hungry of heart in many ways, one of which the Bible but the proud hear nothing and see only words in ink.
MT 13:52 "Then said he unto them [the disciples after giving them many examples of what the Kingdom was like], Therefore every scribe [who writes Scripture] which is instructed unto the Kingdom of Heaven is like unto a man that is a home owner, who brings forth out of his treasure things new and old.
Have a great day. It is sunny and warm up here in the Northeast after much needed rain.
Gary you cannot separate the Spirit and the Living Word. Jesus said My words are Spirit and Life.
Faith is not something that instantly happens after you see or hear something,something was already bringing you to that place of faith before you ever heard a bible verse. God is the Gardner and He prepares the earth(man), before that quickening word (seed) planted springs forth and accomplishes what it is sent for.
From what I have read on here, most do not have a clue what being born again is, the best they can come up with is you are born again when you believe in Jesus, which is not what Jesus was saying to Nicodemus nor is it found in the bible.
That regeneration or being born again is though faith in Christ is most certainly found in the Bible.
To be born again or regenerated is to be made spiritually alive through faith in Christ Jesus. At the point of faith in Jesus Christ the Holy Spirit regenerates the person who has trusted in Jesus Christ. The unbeliever lacks a human spirit which is that part of man by which he is able to relate to God. He is spiritually dead. To be born again or regenerated involves being given a human spirit and imputed with both the righteousness of God and the eternal life of God.
Eph 2:1 And you were dead in your trespasses and sins, 2] in which you formerly walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, of the spirit that is now working in the sons of disobedience. 3] Among them we too all formerly lived in the lusts of our flesh, indulging the desires of the flesh and of the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, even as the rest. 4] But God, being rich in mercy, because of His great love with which He loved us,
The death being spoken of is spiritual death. Before trusting in Christ for eternal life, a person is spiritually dead though physically alive.
Eph 2:5 even when we were dead in our transgressions, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved), 6] and raised us up with Him, and seated us with Him in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus, 7] so that in the ages to come He might show the surpassing riches of His grace in kindness toward us in Christ Jesus. 8] For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God.
The reference is to spiritual life which means eternal life. A person is made alive spiritually - born again - eternally saved - given eternal life through faith in Christ Jesus. Eternal salvation is given by the grace of God when a person places his faith in Christ Jesus. Just as the passage Eph 2:1-8 states.
Lewis Sperry Chafer, founder and first president of Dallas Theological Seminary writes regarding regeneration or being born again...
The Greek for regeneration is παλιγγενεσία (πάλιν, 'again, once more' and γένεσις, 'birth, creation'). The general use of the word (i.e., of the noun as such) is found concerning the kingdom only in Matthew 19:28 and concerning those regenerated by the Spirit only in Titus 3:5 (cf. Ezek. 37:1-10; Matt. 17:11; John 1:13; 3:6-7; Acts 3:21; Rom. 8:21; 1 Cor. 15:27; 1 Pet. 1:3, 23; 1 John 2:29; 3:9; 4:7; 5:1,4, 18; Rev. 21:1).
The doctrine of individual regeneration is obscure in the Old Testament, but in the New Testament it becomes definite (John 3:1-6). Regeneration proves to be the imparting of the divine nature (cf. Titus 3:5; 1 Pet. 1:23; 2:2). All believers, then, have divine sonship (Gal.3:26, R.V.).
Five facts concerning the nature of regeneration need to be stated: (1) a new life has been thereby begotten which is eternal; (2) that life is the divine nature; (3) the believer is begotten by the Spirit; (4) God the Father becomes his legitimate Father; (5) therefore, all believers are heirs of God and joint heirs with Christ. On the human side, regeneration is conditioned simply on faith (John 1:12-13; Gal. 3:36).
Sytematic Theology, Lewis Sperry Chafer, vol 7, p. 264,265.
God has provided a general revelation of Himself through His creation (Rom 1:18-32). If a person is positive to this general revelation, God will provide specific information about Jesus Christ through the gospel. Regardless of geographical isolation, God who is in control of human history will get the gospel to anyone who having through the general revelation of Himself through nature, is curious to know more about God.
Having heard the gospel and enabled to understand it by means of the common grace ministry of the Holy Spirit at gospel hearing (John 16:8-11), he must then place His faith or trust in Jesus Christ in order to be born again. If he doesn't, he remains under condemnation.
You said the following... 'Gary you cannot separate the Spirit and the Living Word. Jesus said My words are Spirit and Life.'
Jesus said, "I have many more things to say to you, but you cannot bear them now. "But when He, the Spirit of truth, comes, He will guide you into all the truth; for He will not speak on His own initiative, but whatever He hears, He will speak; and He will disclose to you what is to come. "He will glorify Me, for He will take of Mine and will disclose it to you. "All things that the Father has are Mine; therefore I said that He takes of Mine and will disclose it to you. John 16:12-15
The result of what Jesus disclosed through the Holy Spirit are the New Testament Scriptures. The word of God.
No one can be born again without trusting in Christ for eternal life.
John 3:16 "For God so loved the world, that He gave His uniquely born Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life.
Gal 3:26 For you are all sons of God through faith in (pisteōs en) Christ Jesus.
To be born again, to have eternal life, one must believe in/on Jesus Christ.
In the face of clear Biblical revelation it is dishonest to claim otherwise.
[It] is the "Faithfulness of Christ" that renews or restores all things.
Christ was certainly faithful to accomplish His task to go to the cross and die for the sins of the world. But in order for a man to be born again, he must place his personal faith in Christ for eternal life.
Gal 3:26 For you are all sons of God through faith in (pisteōs en) Christ Jesus
pisteōs en means faith in.
Only those who place their faith in Christ become adopted sons of God.
John 1:12 But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, to those who believe in (pisteuousin eis) His name.
[pisteuó] - pisteuousin eis means to believe in, into, unto, upon.
A person must receive Christ as Savior in order to become an adopted child of God.
A person must place his trust in what Christ did on his behalf in order to be born again and receive the gift of eternal life.
Last edited by Michael Way; 05-14-2012 at 07:28 AM..
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