Who here is NOT Born-Again but Still a Christian? (preaching, beliefs, sin)
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It is amazing how you bible literalists trust feelings yourself, but if those who are not literalists say they trust the feeling God lays upon their heart, you come back and say the feeling of the heart cannot be trusted, trust the bible only. You just couldn't make it up.
I test all 'feelings' with Scripture as presented. I'm not out looking for experienced, but something happened. The result is a changed man with changed values.
Sorry if this offends, but the truth offends some. Salvation is a free gift for the sincerely asking. The Gospel is not according to man. God does not share his glory.
Every ism and cult adds man to Justification, but the Bible makes nothing of man and everything of God. There is ONE condition however, that is to come to God THROUGH Jesus Christ and him alone.
Otherwise we have to pay for the transgression our self. The Scriptures are pretty clear we can't pay our way. The wages of sin is death.
i find that when people say they are born again, its to prove that they are that special snowflake of christianity and everyone else are fake christians and going to hell.Only they, the special christians are doing it "right" and every one else is eternally wrong.
No, it does not say anything about anyone else. You added the part suggesting it says something about other people. You might want to think about why it makes you feel like a lesser person when someone says he/she is saved.
There was a time when I felt the same way.
Someone once told me that he had been saved, and the guy was shining with joy, but I took his announcement almost like a personal insult. Later I wondered why I felt that way, and why I was unable to share his joy. Finally I got it, - in my heart I knew he had received something precious which I did not have, and I was jealous. But he was not boasting, and pretending to better than anyone, on the contrary, he wanted to share what he had been given, but he was silenced with comments like "who do you think you are?" and "do you think you are something special?". This is basically what you are also saying in your post, and to which many other posters agreed to. People are offended by it, and they lash out and try to tear down the believer.
Unbelievers often feel this way about Christians. There is nothing unusual about it, and believers understand it, because they were once unbelievers who felt the same way.
Last edited by Finn_Jarber; 05-07-2012 at 07:36 AM..
I test all 'feelings' with Scripture as presented. I'm not out looking for experienced, but something happened. The result is a changed man with changed values.
Sorry if this offends, but the truth offends some. Salvation is a free gift for the sincerely asking. The Gospel is not according to man. God does not share his glory.
Every ism and cult adds man to Justification, but the Bible makes nothing of man and everything of God. There is ONE condition however, that is to come to God THROUGH Jesus Christ and him alone.
Otherwise we have to pay for the transgression our self. The Scriptures are pretty clear we can't pay our way. The wages of sin is death.
You said this.
"Well it's all true - not only from a Scriptural perspective but experential. I believe I was born again when I first believed. I felt something different. Repentance was the result". Where in scripture does it say being born again is a feeling ?.
You said the bible makes nothing of man and everything of God, unfortunately you do not believe that, you believe very much it's man's choice that is the deciding factor.
The GIFT of God .. ......... ..........( fill in the blanks)
No, it does not say anything about anyone else. You added the part suggesting it says something about other people. You might want to think about why it makes you feel like a lesser person when someone says he/she is saved.
Not really, Finn. It is an incredulity that anyone could believe our loving God would confer His love conditionally. Those who truly understand love, especially agape love, know God . . . and realize it could never be true.
Not really, Finn. It is an incredulity that anyone could believe our loving God would confer His love conditionally. Those who truly understand love, especially agape love, know God . . . and realize it could never be true.
Yes, really, and I am talking from my own personal experience, so I do not have to take anyone else's word for it. Like I said, I used to feel the same say, and the feeling did not go away until I experienced what they had experienced. Only then I understood. The truth offends the unbeliever, and many of them can't quite explain why, and they won't understnad it, until they open their hearts to it, and allow the Spirit to resolve the problem.
What you descibe above as a problem, never even crossed my unbelieving mind.
I'm not really a big fan of the I'm Saved or I'm Born Again school of Christian testimony. It implies that the person in question is a finished product in the eyes of God, when truthfully our life is a journey either towards or away from God. When I hear people speaking of it in an unguarded way, it seems their faith is defined as a being verb rather than an action verb.
A priest I know pretty well said it rather succinctly. "If they're saved, if they're done, then why don't they just kill themselves right then and there?"
Yes, really, and I am talking from my own personal experience, so I do not have to take anyone else's word for it. Like I said, I used to feel the same say, and the feeling did not go away until I experienced what they had experienced. Only then I understood. The truth offends the unbeliever, and many of them can't quite explain why, and they won't understnad it, until they open their hearts to it, and allow the Spirit to resolve the problem.
Knowing Love is to know God. God IS love. Agape love is unconditional love. Those who know God and love realize that there are no special people and that God is no respecter of persons. He loves us all equally. What you should be asking yourself is . . . what Spirit is it that has made you consider it not to be true? I am certain it cannot be the Holy Spirit. If it is based on the words "written in ink" and NOT what God has "written in our hearts" . . . I would be concerned for the "letter kills" but the Spirit (the true Holy Spirit) brings life.
Those who know God and love realize that there are no special people and that God is no respecter of persons. He loves us all equally. What you should be asking yourself is . . . what Spirit is it that has made you consider it not to be true? I am certain it cannot be the Holy Spirit. If it is based on the words "written in ink" and NOT what God has "written in our hearts" . . . I would be concerned for the "letter kills" but the Spirit (the true Holy Spirit) brings life.
You went straight back to claiming Christians consider themselves as "special people" while others are not. Like I said, that was the way I also felt when I was an unbeliever. I was offended by the joy I saw in believers, and I thought they were boasting, and saying they were 'special' while I was not, when in fact they were only trying to share the good news with me.
You went straight back to claiming Christians consider themselves as "special people" while others are not. Like I said, that was the way I also felt when I was an unbeliever. I was offended by the joy I saw in believers, and I thought they were boasting, and saying they were 'special' while I was not, when in fact they were only trying to share the good news with me.
And you went right past the point that a God who only conditionally loves is NOT Good News, Finn.
And you went right past the point that a God who only conditionally loves is NOT Good News, Finn.
God loves everyone. No one has argued otherwise. God loved me even when I was an unbeliever, but I kept pushing Him away, and I was offended by those who had allwed Him into their lives. The joy God had given them sickened me, because I knew they had something I did not have. And all that time it was right there for me to have too, but I kept rejecting it. Only those who accept this free gift have everlasting life, and until then, you will feel offended by the truth.
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