Could a "Loving God" Actually Say Something This Callous? (doctrine, Messiah)
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Later, He would explain the parables to His disciples.
His disciples asked Him why He spoke to the people in parables
and Jesus said because He didn't want them to understand,
if they did they might repent and be forgiven.
See Matthew 13 and Mark 4
" And the disciples came, and said unto him, Why speakest thou unto them in parables?
He answered and said unto them, Because it is given unto you to know the mysteries
of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given.
For whosoever hath, to him shall be given, and he shall have more abundance:
but whosoever hath not, from him shall be taken away even that he hath.
Therefore speak I to them in parables: because they seeing see not;
and hearing they hear not, neither do they understand. "
Matthew 13
" He told them, “The secret of the kingdom of God has been given to you.
But to those on the outside everything is said in parables so that,
' they may be ever seeing but never perceiving,
and ever hearing but never understanding;
otherwise they might turn and be forgiven! '"
Mark 4
Of course, if one understands what was happening in Palestine at that time,
who was in control of the palace and the temple [no, not the pagan Romans]
then one begins to understand not only why Jesus did this, but why the God
of Israel chose this specific time in Israel's history to incarnate.
Amen and Hallelujah to this Truth!!!
To date, so many people still not understand this above, but of course that was prophesied as so. People blind themselves with this world and of their own. I say, they will reap their own reward!
But isn't there a loving, non-judgmental way to approach this problem with people? By the way, for Jesus to hold people in contempt and loathing would have automatically disqualified Him from being the Lamb who takes away the sins of the world. You cannot die for someone you despise.
This is a very good point Thrill. While we were at our worst( still sinners,and God does not grade on a curve), by laying down his life for us, He demonstrated how much we are loved of God, not despised by him.
This is disturbing on so many levels. I tend to believe that Jesus never uttered these hateful words and they certainly don't demonstrate this incredible love that universal redemptionists believe God possess for His children regardless of how sinful a life they led.
To begin with, we are not even talking about sin here. The people crying, "Lord, Lord" from all appearances are not even cognizant they did anything wrong. They did this and they did that in Jesus' name and we are told nothing of what their intentions were in doing it, though we can surmise from Jesus' reply that their actions were without holy intentions. Still, the things they did were not "sinful" per se. So how could Jesus so callously write them off with "Depart from me!" if He is this totally loving understanding Savior who came to save the world?
This is not the Jesus of the Prodigal Son who told of the Father welcoming His errant child back, no questions asked, after the child lived the most horrendous kind of sinful life as a reprobate. The actions of those crying plaintively, "Lord, Lord" pale in comparison to this child's filth and yet the father (God) welcomes him back with open arms while pushing away without so much as a tear those who cry for mercy and don't even know what it was they did wrong?
Every Christian should be in dreadful fear of these words. Any of us in eternity at judgement could be crying, "Lord, Lord, didn't I give to the poor and help out those in distress and preach your word" only to have Jesus say, "I never knew you. Depart from me you worker of iniquity."
As I said, I find the contrast between the Jesus of the lost sheep and this cold and unloving Jesus so startling as to think we are talking about two totally different people. Oddly enough, it is only in Matthew that all of these hateful things appear. Witness the infamous "Depart from Me into the eternal flames prepared for the devil et.al" Luke 13:23-27 is excepted because it deals only with the Jews who denounced Him.
Can some UR'ers address how they can believe this Jesus of Matthew will be the same Jesus who will welcome the most vile sinner into His loving embrace? Again, I think a case can be made that Jesus never said these hateful words; that like countless other verses His words were either "doctored" or outright fabricated.
The people being rejected form the presence of the Lord are false teachers. They deceived people by teaching false gospel such as 'conversion after death' and let people away from the truth of John 3:16 For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.
The people being rejected form the presence of the Lord are false teachers. They deceived people by teaching false gospel such as 'conversion after death' and let people away from the truth of John 3:16 For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.
...and no truer words have there ever been spoken . Amen .
...and to thrill...I cannot believe you started this thread...stating the things you are stating...it's very unfortunate your heading toward such a lower level from where you were....spiritually "thinking" speaking.
The people being rejected form the presence of the Lord are false teachers. They deceived people by teaching false gospel such as 'conversion after death' and let people away from the truth of John 3:16 For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.
Actually if you read the Read the next verse Thrill quoted from Matthew 7, Jesus said "Therefore" therefore is there for a reason and it had absolutely nothing to do with false teachers.
21“Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. 22Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and in your name drive out demons and perform many miracles?’ 23Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!’
THEREFORE everyone who hears these words of mine and puts them into practice is like a wise man who built his house on the rock.
I gotta admit this is the most terrifying couple verses in the Bible. There's nothing more terrifying than believing you're saved only to find out too late you're not.
A couple things to point out. These folks "practiced iniquity".. which I can say even the most elder Christians do so to some extant. So there is no relative righteousness here but imputed righteousness through faith in Jesus Christ receiving forgiveness of sins. Those that "practice iniquity" did not receive forgiveness of sins through submission to Jesus Christ with imputation of his Holy Spirit to their account.
Another point is the concept that the Lord says "I never knew you". "Know" here is used as in an experiential sense such as Fellowship and Worship not head knowledge as God knows everything.
Does Jesus Christ know YOU? That is probably the most important question we could ever ask ourselves. God ultimately created us for fellowship, and there is no fellowship without Jesus Christ as he is our High Priest mediator between man and the Father interceding on our behalf. Without Jesus Christ, we can not pray to the Father and can have no fellowship. << The World finds this VERY offensive.
Justification comes through submission to Christ's righteousness imputed to our account through faith in him and His Works - blood atonement and resurrection.(Romans 3,4,5) As Hebrews 11 points out, Abraham ultimately was saved through faith in the Resurrection of Isaac. He believed God would do what he said he would do despite what it looked like.
I thank God that the requirement for salvation on our part is not to never to covet for example in an attempt to fulfill the righteous demands of the Law which is a curse to mankind because they can't fulfill it, but through Jesus Christ who fulfilled these righteous demands for us out of his LOVE for us. His Love for us is why he endured those 33 years of suffering as a Man. His Love for us is why he allowed us to drive nails through his hands and feet hanging him to die on that cross while they mocked and spit on him.
Actually if you read the Read the next verse Thrill quoted from Matthew 7, Jesus said "Therefore" therefore is there for a reason and it had absolutely nothing to do with false teachers.
21“Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. 22Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and in your name drive out demons and perform many miracles?’ 23Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!’
THEREFORE everyone who hears these words of mine and puts them into practice is like a wise man who built his house on the rock.
Verses 15-23 is about true, and false diciples. Verses 21-23 is about people who were NEVER known to Jesus aka were never saved. The part you refer to (24-27)is about wise and foolish builders. The verse before it (13-14) are about the narrow and the wide gates: “Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it. 14 But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it."
This is a very good point Thrill. While we were at our worst( still sinners,and God does not grade on a curve), by laying down his life for us, He demonstrated how much we are loved of God, not despised by him.
Only in his own understanding & carnal knowledge, as this is why people do not perceive or understand the Truth of God our Savior and of Christ Jesus our hope. Yes, He did demonstrate His gracious love for us, and through this peace Christ Jesus has left and freely given to us, we will go home. I know i am.
The people being rejected form the presence of the Lord are false teachers. They deceived people by teaching false gospel such as 'conversion after death' and let people away from the truth of John 3:16 For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.
A big Amen to this Truth!! Though not all of this is directed solely at false leaders.
John 6:37
All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.
If you come to Jesus Christ for forgiveness of sins, there is Zero Chance that you will be cast out. The God that can not lie says so.
The sinless Lord Jesus Christ voluntarily went through what we each of us deserve - the Justice for transgression of the Law.
John 15:13 Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends.
Isaiah 53
1 Who hath believed our report? and to whom is the arm of the Lord revealed?
2 For he shall grow up before him as a tender plant, and as a root out of a dry ground: he hath no form nor comeliness; and when we shall see him, there is no beauty that we should desire him.
3 He is despised and rejected of men; a man of sorrows, and acquainted with grief: and we hid as it were our faces from him; he was despised, and we esteemed him not.
4 Surely he hath borne our griefs, and carried our sorrows: yet we did esteem him stricken, smitten of God, and afflicted.
5 But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed.
6 All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the Lord hath laid on him the iniquity of us all.
7 He was oppressed, and he was afflicted, yet he opened not his mouth: he is brought as a lamb to the slaughter, and as a sheep before her shearers is dumb, so he openeth not his mouth.
8 He was taken from prison and from judgment: and who shall declare his generation? for he was cut off out of the land of the living: for the transgression of my people was he stricken.
9 And he made his grave with the wicked, and with the rich in his death; because he had done no violence, neither was any deceit in his mouth.
10 Yet it pleased the Lord to bruise him; he hath put him to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see his seed, he shall prolong his days, and the pleasure of the Lord shall prosper in his hand.
11 He shall see of the travail of his soul, and shall be satisfied: by his knowledge shall my righteous servant justify many; for he shall bear their iniquities.
12 Therefore will I divide him a portion with the great, and he shall divide the spoil with the strong; because he hath poured out his soul unto death: and he was numbered with the transgressors; and he bare the sin of many, and made intercession for the transgressors.
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Though not all of this is directed solely at false leaders.
