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I'm not going to even justify your accusations with answers because it's clear where you stand with God. Nothing I would say to you would convince you otherwise. All I'm going to say is this much. I've read several Heaven and Hell testimonies. People in Heaven cannot ever see what is going on in Hell. They don't even know whose there. But they can see and pray for their family members on Earth. There is a huge portal in Heaven where they gather and see their families and all the special events that happened such as a baby being born, birthdays, graduations, and etc. They pray for you and upon your life so that you make it to Heaven. That means Trimac, all your families members that made it to Heaven (even to the fifth and sixth generations back) are praying upon your life so that you not only make it to Heaven but that you will be a living testimony to the saving power of Jesus Christ in your life. You ultimately have the choice of whether or not you want to be there.
Location: The western periphery of Terra Australis
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Quote:
Originally Posted by allenk893
I'm not going to even justify your accusations with answers because it's clear where you stand with God. Nothing I would say to you would convince you otherwise. All I'm going to say is this much. I've read several Heaven and Hell testimonies. People in Heaven cannot ever see what is going on in Hell. They don't even know whose there. But they can see and pray for their family members on Earth. There is a huge portal in Heaven where they gather and see their families and all the special events that happened such as a baby being born, birthdays, graduations, and etc. They pray for you and upon your life so that you make it to Heaven. That means Trimac, all your families members that made it to Heaven (even to the fifth and sixth generations back) are praying upon your life so that you not only make it to Heaven but that you will be a living testimony to the saving power of Jesus Christ in your life. You ultimately have the choice of whether or not you want to be there.
What 'accusations'? Isn't what I said a statement of fact. And don't presume to know where I stand with God.
Well the sad fact is very few if any of my ancestors are in heaven, now, unless there's something we don't know. Most of them were Buddhists or adherents of other faiths (aside from my grandmother who is now deceased) so I guess if I make it to Heaven I'll be watching them in hell, that'll be fun. If that's the kind of Heaven God has set up I'm not sure I'd want that. I do want to embrace a loving God, but I just can't accept what some people say about him. I just can't relate to a God who will watch people suffer forever.
What 'accusations'? Isn't what I said a statement of fact. And don't presume to know where I stand with God.
Well the sad fact is very few if any of my ancestors are in heaven, now, unless there's something we don't know. Most of them were Buddhists or adherents of other faiths (aside from my grandmother who is now deceased) so I guess if I make it to Heaven I'll be watching them in hell, that'll be fun. If that's the kind of Heaven God has set up I'm not sure I'd want that. I do want to embrace a loving God, but I just can't accept what some people say about him. I just can't relate to a God who will watch people suffer forever.
You just don't get it. There is no point. Unless you have faith to trust in him and fear him, you will never understand. I made the choice a long time ago that I didn't give a crap who went to Hell or not. I was going to go to Heaven no matter what. I didn't care if my entire family went to Hell (which they won't), I was still going to make it. When I choose to believe Jesus Christ is my savior, I chose to take up the cross and leave the world behind. I chose to love no one first but him. Because not only did I want to go to Heaven, I wasn't going to go to a Hell even if I thought it existed or not. I cannot risk my own soul for what-if's. I chose to believe what Jesus did for me on the cross and that's that. I separate myself from the world and cling to him because of the promise he made. Everything else after that, he will reveal to you.
God knows how many questions I've asked regarding Heaven, Hell, people, my spirit, etc. I've had every single one answered and now understand the Bible I read. That is the reason I am so on fire for him now. I don't speak so zealously because I am blindly Christian. I speak this way because of what I have experienced, learned, and where he has taken me in this life. If it wasn't true, I wouldn't be arguing with you. If you want to receive the same knowledge I have, you have to first make the choice that you want to go to Heaven. Because some people only want to go to Heaven on their own conditions. Doesn't work that way. You either want to go to Heaven or you don't. When you make the choice that you do and will leave your love of the world behind to get there, you will have no problem getting the truth.
Location: The western periphery of Terra Australis
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Yeah maybe I should say 'to hell with everybody else' (literally), I don't wanna go there so I will do whatever it takes. And when I get here, when I see people in Hell, I'm going to understand it, even enjoy it, because everything in Heaven is supposed to be enjoyable and for God's glory.
I don't know ... I think I'm pretty familiar with Jesus' parables and I sure don't remember anything like that.
In both Matthew 12 and Luke 11 it is recorded that Jesus said, "Whoever is not with me is against me, and whoever does not gather with me scatters." But nothing about slaying anyone at his feet. I mean, people poured oil on his feet, they sat at his feet and listened to his teaching, they even fell at his feet to give him thanks for healing ... and then, Jesus washed other people's feet. But I simply can't recall any time when he said anything about bringing his enemies to him so they could be slain at his feet.
You know what - I was having trouble remembering any such parable as that too. Perhaps he is jumping in his mind over to the book of Revelation - another book that is replete with symbolic language ?
Sure! There will even be an ambrosia dispenser next to them and an individual tempature/torture control so Thomas Aquinas, Tertullian and TwinSpin can be like "Take that, Pelagius! Take that, pcamps! AHH HA HA HA!".... Ok, as usual, just kidding about Twin, but I wouldn't be surprised if those actual Church Fathers would try to ask God for such a thing when the got to heaven (assuming they did). To me, their "theological advancements" will always be stained by their sadistic revenge theology ideas.
You know what - I was having trouble remembering any such parable as that too. Perhaps he is jumping in his mind over to the book of Revelation - another book that is replete with symbolic language ?
I don't think so ... I jumped the gun. I found the parable he was talking about, it just doesn't mean what he thinks it does ... imo.
Yeah maybe I should say 'to hell with everybody else' (literally), I don't wanna go there so I will do whatever it takes. And when I get here, when I see people in Hell, I'm going to understand it, even enjoy it, because everything in Heaven is supposed to be enjoyable and for God's glory.
That's right. To Hell with everybody else. Because I only have one soul and I'm not risking it for everybody else to burn in an eternal inferno. Call me selfish. Don't really care. I choose to go to Heaven.
That's right. To Hell with everybody else. Because I only have one soul and I'm not risking it for everybody else to burn in an eternal inferno. Call me selfish. Don't really care. I choose to go to Heaven.
I have to say, you are the most honest ETer I have ever "met".
Someday you'll be able to see that believing that God would burn people in an eternal inferno, and living in fear that God will throw you away, too, if you somehow displease him, is what forces you to be selfish. Being selfish and caring about no one but yourself IS hell. And someday you will experience that heaven is loving others as you love yourself.
Believe the truth, allenk ... God loves you unconditionally, and God loves us all.
And they will go out and look upon the dead bodies of those who rebelled against me; their worm will not die, nor will their fire be quenched, and they will be loathsome to all mankind.
Many early Church fathers, such as Tertullian, Augustine and later on Calvin, Edwards.etc rejoiced at the prospect of viewing the suffering of the damned from Heaven. I won't repeat what they said, but some even say that it will bring a feeling of joy to them. How many Christians here respect such men?
How do you feel about looking at the suffering of the damned in hell while in heaven? I mean it seems a clearly established belief in the early Church, and there's the Parable of Lazarus and the Rich Man. Almost a smug, 'I told you so'...
Will God/Jesus, the Angels and the saints look into this fiery pit of sulphur or whatever it really is, and see these souls/bodies (supernaturally ressurrected for the SOLE PURPOSE OF SUFFERING!) watching their screams of agony, like some kind of freak show or Roman circus? Can you truly imagine the merciful Lord and Saviour doing this? Will he be enjoying it? Will believers enjoy it when they see their relatives, their family members, and their fellow humans in such unbelievable pain and praise God?
If you believe that the verse I quoted refers to this, it's not an easy one to escape. There's no pity, just that they'll be loathed. How does anyone who believes God truly loves everyone, even those who send themselves to Hell, reconcile this? 'I love you but I'm going to torture you forever and watch for WHAT REASON?' Sadistic pleasure? Is God not a God of goodness, love, mercy...even Satan wouldn't be endlessly amused by human suffering, I don't think, so why the flip would a good God be? It boggles the mind.
I think yes--perhaps that will happen. And God will be glorified. Justice will be done.
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I mean, people poured oil on his feet, they sat at his feet and listened to his teaching, they even fell at his feet to give him thanks for healing ... and then, Jesus washed other people's feet. But I simply can't recall any time when he said anything about bringing his enemies to him so they could be slain at his feet.
