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For responding to what you brought up Jimmie ? Please !!!!!!. Although we are poles apart in what we believe and how we view scripture, you are a 100% bible believer that will at least not skirt or avoid questions.
I was NOT asking for a specific definition of the Truth, but rather making a general statement about the truth of scripture. You know that, but are purposely being obtuse.
I was NOT asking for a specific definition of the Truth, but rather making a general statement about the truth of scripture. You know that, but are purposely being obtuse.
Jimmie you should know by know that I am a 100% believer in Jesus Christ being the truth and there is no truth found outside of him. I was not being obtuse.
I think that it's important to talk about your beliefs. I think that just as important, and maybe more so, is living your beliefs. If you discuss your beliefs more than you live them, you're an "armchair Christian".
I would not believe anything you find in Breitbart. If the claim was true, and the military officialy considers Christianity as "spiritual rape" then they would have abolished army chaplains, but that haven't.
The second half of Romans 1 has come up in past threads as God's revealing wrath in giving us over to sinful behavior.
Romans 1:18-32
18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men who suppress the truth in unrighteousness,
19 because that which is known about God is evident within them; for God made it evident to them. 20 For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes, His eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly seen, being understood through what has been made, so that they are without excuse. 21 For even though they knew God, they did not honor Him as God or give thanks, but they became futile in their speculations, and their foolish heart was darkened. 22 Professing to be wise, they became fools, 23 and exchanged the glory of the incorruptible God for an image in the form of corruptible man and of birds and four-footed animals and crawling creatures.
24 Therefore God gave them over in the lusts of their hearts to impurity, so that their bodies would be dishonored among them. 25 For they exchanged the truth of God for a lie, and worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed forever. Amen.
26 For this reason God gave them over to degrading passions; for their women exchanged the natural function for that which is unnatural, 27 and in the same way also the men abandoned the natural function of the woman and burned in their desire toward one another, men with men committing indecent acts and receiving in their own persons the due penalty of their error.
28 And just as they did not see fit to acknowledge God any longer, God gave them over to a depraved mind, to do those things which are not proper, 29 being filled with all unrighteousness, wickedness, greed, evil; full of envy, murder, strife, deceit, malice; they are gossips, 30 slanderers, haters of God, insolent, arrogant, boastful, inventors of evil, disobedient to parents, 31 without understanding, untrustworthy, unloving, unmerciful; 32 and although they know the ordinance of God, that those who practice such things are worthy of death, they not only do the same, but also give hearty approval to those who practice them.
So here's my question - are all of the gay people coming out an indicator of God's revealed wrath on this country?
So be it. This nation deserves it. Maybe people will wake up and know who the LORD is.
Yes, we will get what we deserve. Even many Reps in the Republican Party are now taking a pro gay stance, Paul Ryan being the latest one. They have been the last line of defense, but in their quest for more votes they are turning their backs on God. The Dem party did so a long time ago.
Last edited by Finn_Jarber; 05-04-2013 at 06:11 AM..
The second half of Romans 1 has come up in past threads as God's revealing wrath in giving us over to sinful behavior.
Romans 1:18-32
18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men who suppress the truth in unrighteousness,
19 because that which is known about God is evident within them; for God made it evident to them. 20 For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes, His eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly seen, being understood through what has been made, so that they are without excuse. 21 For even though they knew God, they did not honor Him as God or give thanks, but they became futile in their speculations, and their foolish heart was darkened. 22 Professing to be wise, they became fools, 23 and exchanged the glory of the incorruptible God for an image in the form of corruptible man and of birds and four-footed animals and crawling creatures.
24 Therefore God gave them over in the lusts of their hearts to impurity, so that their bodies would be dishonored among them. 25 For they exchanged the truth of God for a lie, and worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed forever. Amen.
26 For this reason God gave them over to degrading passions; for their women exchanged the natural function for that which is unnatural, 27 and in the same way also the men abandoned the natural function of the woman and burned in their desire toward one another, men with men committing indecent acts and receiving in their own persons the due penalty of their error.
28 And just as they did not see fit to acknowledge God any longer, God gave them over to a depraved mind, to do those things which are not proper, 29 being filled with all unrighteousness, wickedness, greed, evil; full of envy, murder, strife, deceit, malice; they are gossips, 30 slanderers, haters of God, insolent, arrogant, boastful, inventors of evil, disobedient to parents, 31 without understanding, untrustworthy, unloving, unmerciful; 32 and although they know the ordinance of God, that those who practice such things are worthy of death, they not only do the same, but also give hearty approval to those who practice them.
So here's my question - are all of the gay people coming out an indicator of God's revealed wrath on this country?
Paul was referring to heterosexual gentiles who had known his God then reverted back to their previous pagan religions worshipping fertility gods and goddesses. He wrote the letter from 1st century Corinth- where there were many temples to pagan fertility gods and goddesses.
Notice that first, these men and women Paul were referring to were having 'degrading' idolatrous sex with each other (males with females - Verse 24) and worshipping idols made in the likeness of mankind, birds, reptiles etc. (This would only be happening in the temples dedicated to fertility gods and goddesses in Corinth where Paul wrote the letter, otherwise the whole idolatry thing doesn't make sense)
21 For although they knew God, they neither glorified him as God nor gave thanks to him, but their thinking became futile and their foolish hearts were darkened. 22 Although they claimed to be wise, they became fools 23 and exchanged the glory of the immortal God for images made to look like a mortal human being and birds and animals and reptiles.
24 Therefore God gave them over in the desires of their hearts to impurity for the degrading of their bodies with one another. (males with females) 25 They exchanged the truth about God for a lie, and worshiped and served created things rather than the Creator
So it was BECAUSE these men and women were having degrading idolatrous sex with each other (ie women with men) while worshipping pagan idols that:
26 Because of this, God gave them over to dishonorable passions. Even their women exchanged natural sexual relations for unnatural ones. 27 In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another.
Anyone who thinks this letter is about gay and lesbian people hasn't given it any thought at all and has their prejudice well in place. These were heterosexual people engaged in idolatrous sex acts with each other while worshipping their old pagan gods. Then the men 'exchanged' their 'use' of women and penetrated each other, and the women exchanged their 'natural' sex for sex 'contrary' to their nature- which was anal sex with the men (according to early church fathers like St Augustine).
St Augustine (354–430 C.E.)
"But if one has relations even with one’s wife in a part of the body which was not made for begetting children, such relations are against nature and indecent. In fact, the same apostle earlier said the same thing about the women, For their women exchanged natural relations for those which are against nature (Rom 1:26).
Augustine, Marriage and Desire 20.35 (trans. Roland Teske; ed. John E Rotelle; Answer to the Pelagians, II; New York: New City Press, 1990), 75-76.
The second half of Romans 1 has come up in past threads as God's revealing wrath in giving us over to sinful behavior.
Romans 1:18-32
18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men who suppress the truth in unrighteousness,
19 because that which is known about God is evident within them; for God made it evident to them. 20 For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes, His eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly seen, being understood through what has been made, so that they are without excuse. 21 For even though they knew God, they did not honor Him as God or give thanks, but they became futile in their speculations, and their foolish heart was darkened. 22 Professing to be wise, they became fools, 23 and exchanged the glory of the incorruptible God for an image in the form of corruptible man and of birds and four-footed animals and crawling creatures.
24 Therefore God gave them over in the lusts of their hearts to impurity, so that their bodies would be dishonored among them. 25 For they exchanged the truth of God for a lie, and worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed forever. Amen.
26 For this reason God gave them over to degrading passions; for their women exchanged the natural function for that which is unnatural, 27 and in the same way also the men abandoned the natural function of the woman and burned in their desire toward one another, men with men committing indecent acts and receiving in their own persons the due penalty of their error.
28 And just as they did not see fit to acknowledge God any longer, God gave them over to a depraved mind, to do those things which are not proper, 29 being filled with all unrighteousness, wickedness, greed, evil; full of envy, murder, strife, deceit, malice; they are gossips, 30 slanderers, haters of God, insolent, arrogant, boastful, inventors of evil, disobedient to parents, 31 without understanding, untrustworthy, unloving, unmerciful; 32 and although they know the ordinance of God, that those who practice such things are worthy of death, they not only do the same, but also give hearty approval to those who practice them.
So here's my question - are all of the gay people coming out an indicator of God's revealed wrath on this country?
No. Paul is referring to the heterosexual Greco-Romans who gave up Christianity and returned to their pagan idolatrous ways. Even Saint Augustine said the above verses are referring to heterosexuals. Stop projecting your own prejudices onto a 2000 year old text.
And why do you ignore Romans 2? By your argument, you yourself are gay.
2 You, therefore, have no excuse, you who pass judgment on someone else, for at whatever point you judge another, you are condemning yourself, because you who pass judgment do the same things. 2 Now we know that God’s judgment against those who do such things is based on truth. 3 So when you, a mere human being, pass judgment on them and yet do the same things, do you think you will escape God’s judgment? 4 Or do you show contempt for the riches of his kindness, forbearance and patience, not realizing that God’s kindness is intended to lead you to repentance?
Yes, we will get what we deserve. Even many Reps in the Republican Party are now taking a pro gay stance, Paul Ryan being the latest one. They have been the last line of defense, but in their quest for more votes they are turning their backs on God. The Dem party did so a long time ago.
G-d is much more likely to release his wrath on this country for all the obnoxious Christian extremists who constantly demonize his gay children. If you seriously think your views are winning people over, you're in for a seriously bad wake up call. Read Matthew 7. You do not bear good fruit.
They received the message with great eagerness and examined the Scriptures every day to see if what Paul said was true.
I can love my neighbor and still search for the truth in the scriptures.
You are aware Paul specifically refers to the Hebrew scriptures, not the Christian one's right?
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