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Old 07-14-2013, 05:37 PM
 
Location: Southern Oregon
17,071 posts, read 10,950,316 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pcamps View Post
This to me is a mockery of the teachings of Jesus.
Yes, to you it is, but consider that the only reason for that is that it is a mockery of the teachings of Jesus.
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Old 07-14-2013, 05:48 PM
 
Location: New England
37,340 posts, read 28,358,215 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nateswift View Post
Yes, to you it is, but consider that the only reason for that is that it is a mockery of the teachings of Jesus.
Is this a riddle ?.
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Old 07-14-2013, 06:12 PM
 
63,951 posts, read 40,236,649 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nateswift View Post
Yes, to you it is, but consider that the only reason for that is that it IS a mockery of the teachings of Jesus.
Quote:
Originally Posted by pcamps View Post
Is this a riddle ?.
Just read it with emphasis on the third "IS" to see he is agreeing with you.
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Old 07-14-2013, 07:09 PM
 
Location: El Paso, TX
33,342 posts, read 26,558,348 times
Reputation: 16445
Default Legalism Says "Do", Grace Says "Done!"

Excerpt:
With legalism the focus is always upon self. With grace the focus is always upon Jesus. Legalism says, "Do". Grace says, "Done!" There is nothing I can do to make God love me more; and there is nothing I can do that will make Him love me less. This is grace.

Article Source: http://EzineArticles.com/6635856
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Old 07-14-2013, 09:36 PM
 
Location: Southern Oregon
17,071 posts, read 10,950,316 times
Reputation: 1874
With legalism the focus is always on the self. Self interest says, "there is nothing I can do to make God love me more," Grace says, "there are a wondrous lot of things I can do to show my love for God!"
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Old 07-14-2013, 09:38 PM
 
Location: Southern Oregon
17,071 posts, read 10,950,316 times
Reputation: 1874
Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticPhD View Post
Just read it with emphasis on the third "IS" to see he is agreeing with you.
I'm bad that way. "Yes, but the only reason you feel that way is because it's true."
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Old 07-14-2013, 11:14 PM
 
4,217 posts, read 2,792,119 times
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Faith is doing the works of God as Jesus said He did and those who have faith in Him would.

Like this;" The man who has faith in me will do the works I do."

"The words I speak are not my own it is the Father who lives in me accomplishing His works."

"Anyone who acts in truth comes to the light so that his deeds are revealed as works of God."
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Old 07-14-2013, 11:57 PM
 
Location: Tennessee
10,688 posts, read 7,733,822 times
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Default Nicely quoted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Peacegiver View Post
Faith is doing the works of God as Jesus said He did and those who have faith in Him would.

Like this;" The man who has faith in me will do the works I do."

"The words I speak are not my own it is the Father who lives in me accomplishing His works."

"Anyone who acts in truth comes to the light so that his deeds are revealed as works of God."
Without doing, there is no faith. Nicely quoted Peacegiver.
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Old 07-15-2013, 07:53 AM
 
Location: Somewhere
6,370 posts, read 7,042,936 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike555 View Post
Excerpt:
With legalism the focus is always upon self. With grace the focus is always upon Jesus. Legalism says, "Do". Grace says, "Done!" There is nothing I can do to make God love me more; and there is nothing I can do that will make Him love me less. This is grace.

Article Source: http://EzineArticles.com/6635856
The works I'm referring to are those of Jesus. How do you classify the works of Jesus as legalism?
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Old 07-15-2013, 04:21 PM
 
Location: El Paso, TX
33,342 posts, read 26,558,348 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Peacegiver View Post
Faith is doing the works of God as Jesus said He did and those who have faith in Him would.

Like this;" The man who has faith in me will do the works I do."

"The words I speak are not my own it is the Father who lives in me accomplishing His works."

"Anyone who acts in truth comes to the light so that his deeds are revealed as works of God."
No, faith is not doing the works (Plural) of God. Words have meaning. Words have definition. The definition of faith - pistis is 'belief', 'trust', 'confidence.'


The word 'believe' - pisteúō comes from the word pistis - 'faith', 'trust', 'confidence.'

The Bible contrasts faith with works.
Ephesians 2:8 For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; 9] not as a result of works, so that no one may boast.
Ephesians 2:8-9 specifically states that we are saved by grace through faith and not of works. Therefore, to say that faith is doing the works of God is contrary to what the Scriptures say.

Eternal salvation is received as a free gift through one non-meritorius act of faith. Non-meritorious means that you cannot take any credit for believing on Christ. The merit is in Jesus Christ who is the object of your faith.

Jesus Himself stated that the singular (and non-meritorious) work of God was to believe on Him.
John 6:27 "Do not work for the food which perishes, but for the food which endures to eternal life, which the Son of Man will give to you, for on Him the Father, God, has set His seal." 28] Therefore they said to Him, "What shall we do, so that we may work the works (erga;plural) of God?" 29] Jesus answered and said to them, "This is the work (ergon; singular) of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent."

You alluded to John 14:12 with this quote; "The man who has faith in me will do the works I do."
John 14:12 "Truly, truly, I say to you, he who believes in Me, the works that I do, he will do also; and greater works than these he will do; because I go to the Father.
John 14:12 is not to be understood as applying to all believers. Do all believers do greater works than Jesus did? 'NO!!!' Jesus was comforting His disciples who were troubled that He was about to depart. He was encouraging them with the fact that they would be able to do the same works that He had done during His ministry. They would be able to raise the dead, cast out demons, heal the sick. These miracles which were a part of their apostolic ministry were for the purpose of establishing their credentials as apostles appointed by Christ, so that people would listen to their message. The works which the apostles did were greater than what Jesus had done, not in nature or kind, but in number. It also refers to the outreach of their giving of the gospel. Peter in one sermon had 3,000 converts.

Now when was the last time that you raised anyone from the dead, or cast out demons? Or when was the last time that you did works greater than the works that Jesus did? You say that you've never done works greater than the works of Jesus? Uh-oh, then according to you, you must not have faith.


Now understand this people!!! I have never said that the believer should not do works. I have never discouraged works. Works belong to the spritual life of the believer after he has already been eternally saved though one non-meritorious act of faith. Your eternal salvation is accomplished the very moment you first place your trust in Christ for eternal life before you ever have the opportunity to do any meritorious works at all.

And neither can it truthfully be claimed that just because a believer doesn't have good works, or just because he shows no evidence of good works, that he was never saved in the first place. There are believers who are by the way they live totally undistinguishable from unbelievers. And then again, unbelievers are fully capable of doing things which are good from a human point of view. And even if a believer has 10,000 works in his Christian life, but they were all produced in the energy of the flesh, they are 'wood, hay, and straw' and will be burned up at the judgment seat of Christ. But that believer is still saved (1 Cor. 3:15).


As far as your eternal salvation goes, Jesus did all the work. No meritorious works on your part are involved. That's grace.

As far as your spiritual life after salvation goes, you should be motivated to have a productive spiritual life of which good works are a part. But just because you should be motivated, does not necessarily mean that you will be. Many believers allow the things of this world to have priority over their spiritual life.
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