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Then What keeps you from just sinning when ever you want, because in your theology it just simply doesn't matter all it?
Heck to people who believe this "Free Grace" stuff nothing really matters, they probably just go around sinning all they want like animals.
"Salvation doesn't come by works." - Bah hum bug!
“Truly I tell you,” Jesus said to them, “no one who has left home or wife or brothers or sisters or parents or children for the sake of the kingdom of God will fail to receive many times as much in this age, and in the age to come eternal life.”
Works / Action / Doing
No one who has forsaken the world for God will miss out on eternal life. The Action of leaving for the sake of God is a Work thus they are justified by it according to this verse.
We even have the Beatitudes where Jesus list a bunch of traits and calls those people blessed. The Action of being one of those traits is a Work.
For whoever does the will of my Father in heaven is my brother and sister and mother.”
Doing / Action / Work
We are Jesus's brothers if we repent and submit to the will of God.
What is the will of God?
"He has shown you, O mortal, what is good.
And what does the Lord require of you?
To act justly and to love mercy
and to walk humbly with your God."
Jesus also tells us we must not become arrogant in our piety such as the Pharisees did, that we should not be hypocrites. The action of avoiding an action is in of it's self a "Work."
"Therefore test every thing, hold unto the good, but avoid every kind of evil."
Your misunderstanding of God's grace is empowered by your unbelief in Jesus' once and for all sacrifice. Allow me to correct you on what the will of the Father is.
Hebrews 10:9 "Then He said, "Look, I have come to do your will." He cancels the first covenant in order to put the second into effect."
If the will of the Father is to do away with the covenant of law and bring in the covenant of grace, then how does one "do" the will of the Father? You believe it has already been done. You believe that Jesus has already accomplished our salvation for us. There is no work to be done to establish your salvation. You're trying to build a house that Jesus has already built.
You asked what keeps us from sinning if we are saved by grace. Well, in and of ourselves nothing does. The antidote against sin is security. When you believe God has punished all of your sins, past, present and future this gives you a life of rest and then sin does not become attractive but instead righteousness does. So what happens if a believer still sins? Well I would first ask that you go and read on the Lord's discipline in the book of Hebrews. Here is a helpful resource on God's discipline too:
Now, do you discipline a child that is not yours? Of course you don't. So who does the Father discipline? His children. When does He discipline them? When they sin. What is the purpose of discipline? To lead you back onto the path of righteousness. The people you keep referring to as believers with this idea of "oh we can sin because grace has saved us" is a creature that does not exist and most certainly are not believers. Anyone who sins in a peaceful conscious because they believe the blood of Jesus is constantly keeping them clean does not believe that the blood of Jesus is keeping them clean. They are not true believers. Why? Because if they were true believers they would receive rebuke from the Father for their sins. But if none is received, they are not children of God.
Learn to separate the professors and possessors of salvation.
Christ died for the sins of the world making salvation possible for the human race.
Hebrews 10:10 By this will we have been sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all. ..... 12]but He, having offered one sacrifice for sins for all time, SAT DOWN AT THE RIGHT HAND OF GOD,
But the potential for salvation is realized only by those who place their trust or faith in Christ.
When a person believes on Christ God imputes His righteousness to that person as the Romans passage above states, which qualifies him to have an eternal relationship with God.
Where there is love and forgiveness; there is no need for an offering or sacrifice because of sin.
But the eyes can only see, what the mind has, is, and will be prepared to comprehend.
Where there is love and forgiveness; there is no need for an offering or sacrifice because of sin.
But the eyes can only see, what the mind has, is, and will be prepared to comprehend.
Where there is love and forgiveness; there is no need for an offering or sacrifice because of sin.
But the eyes can only see, what the mind has, is, and will be prepared to comprehend.
Where there is love and forgiveness; there is no need for an offering or sacrifice because of sin. But the eyes can only see, what the mind has, is, and will be prepared to comprehend.
Why would you quote Paul from the book of Hebrews when you don't believe Jesus died for our sins? Paul devoted his life to preaching the truth that Jesus died for our sins and to explain deeply the grace of God. You quoted Hebrews 10:18 which reads,
"Now where remission of these is, there is no more offering for sin."
Do you see the context of this chapter? Paul is telling the Hebrews there is no longer a need to offer a sin because God has already punished all of our sins in the body of Jesus. The way you quoted the verse is not even in any of the translations. Can you see how your twisted belief of the gospel has caused you to also twist scripture to the way you want to see it instead of the way it is written?
I am not convinced that Paul wrote the book of Hebrews. The letter quotes extensively from the Old Testament. Because Paul was a Pharisee he would have been familiar with the Scripture in its original Hebrew language. In other letters, Paul either quotes the Masoretic Text (the original Hebrew) or paraphrases it. However, all of the quotes in this epistle are taken out of the Septuagint (the Greek Old Testament), which is inconsistent with Paul's usage. Finally, Paul was an apostle who claimed to receive his revelations directly from the Lord Jesus (1 Corinthians 11:23; Galatians 1:12). The writer of Hebrews specifically says that he was taught by an apostle (Hebrews 2:3).
Where there is love and forgiveness; there is no need for an offering or sacrifice because of sin.
But the eyes can only see, what the mind has, is, and will be prepared to comprehend.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jerwade
Faith is not a matter of believing, it's knowing.
Quote:
Originally Posted by romans519
Why would you quote Paul from the book of Hebrews when you don't believe Jesus died for our sins? Paul devoted his life to preaching the truth that Jesus died for our sins and to explain deeply the grace of God. You quoted Hebrews 10:18 which reads,
"Now where remission of these is, there is no more offering for sin."
Do you see the context of this chapter? Paul is telling the Hebrews there is no longer a need to offer a sin because God has already punished all of our sins in the body of Jesus. The way you quoted the verse is not even in any of the translations. Can you see how your twisted belief of the gospel has caused you to also twist scripture to the way you want to see it instead of the way it is written?
To prevent you from making assumptions' the source of the quote(s) came from the Spirit within me.
It would be of benefit, if you didn't twist what another person is saying to fit your ideology of punishment.
To prevent you from making assumptions' the source of the quote(s) came from the Spirit within me. It would be of benefit, if you didn't twist what another person is saying to fit your ideology of punishment.
It would be of benefit if you would quote scripture because the "spirit inside of you" does not interest me in the slightest because I believe only those who believe in the finished work of Christ, His sacrifice for our sins has the Holy Spirit inside of them. You can debate scripture with personal feelings..
It would be of benefit if you would quote scripture because the "spirit inside of you" does not interest me in the slightest because I believe only those who believe in the finished work of Christ, His sacrifice for our sins has the Holy Spirit inside of them. You can debate scripture with personal feelings..
By all means, show me in the verse you mentioned, where punishment is a factor?
It appears that the death of Jesus was brought about through human volition, given the political and religious powers of the day. Although at the same time, Jesus was fully aware that his message of love; and what he represented to the status quo, would ultimately lead to his own death. Thus, his life (blood) was an issue in setting the captives free from the Religious sects of the day. But his death was not divinely foreordained as a penal substitution, whereas, there is no greater love than to lay one's own life down for that of another. Many are fixated on Jesus' death, and will accept nothing but the blood of Jesus, as "they know not, what they do."Although, there is only ONE whose undeniable innocence (not an ordinary victim) was able to change the process of scapegoating (a slaughterhouse religion with a carnivorous diet).And it is a saving act of God; a victory over the powers of this world (men) and a defeat of death, reversing it through his Life and Resurrection. The cross may, indeed be, the centerpiece of the Christian religion, but it is not God's altar. Rather, it is the gospel which was/is/will end all bloodshed, not that of merely exchanging victims (bulls and goats for that of Christ as a substitution). It was a sacrifice to end all sacrificing. Let's not make it a prescription for suffering death, but ONE of LIFE. Christ’s sacrifice was not to conciliate the Father to men through that of second hand punishment, rather it was to restore or reconcile that which was lost from the power of sin and death.
By all means, show me in the verse you mentioned, where punishment is a factor?
That verse was written on the grounds that all the sins of the world had already been punished. You continuously ask people to show you where in the bible does it say our sins have been punished and we have provided you with possibly every verse there is and you still question it. I don't know why. Hebrews 10:18 was telling the Hebrews that there is no longer a need for them to continue offering the animal sacrifice for their sins because Jesus has already paid the price for all of our sins. So if you continue to offer a sacrifice knowing God has already provided the once and for all sacrifice then you are winning willfully.
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