Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
I think you need to understand that God can keep calamity from coming upon you in the first place.
Well, tell that to the many who have been murdered. But surely God can protect me if it is His will but then again He might allow me or you to be martyred so as to spare us or the many He has already allowed martyred, further tribulations of life. You just do not know. As it is said, One size does not fit all.
Good comments. I'm going to tell you what it means by using the scriptures. When Jesus spoke, He spoke parabolically. Therefore, if one were to take Him literally, then they would stumble over what He was speaking. This is why He showed his disciples privately. This is further confirmed by the fact that He rebuked Peter for later using the sword (as Nateswift pointed out.)
So the scriptures tell us that the Sword of the Spirit is the Word of God:
Eph 6:17 And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God:
So we know that when Jesus speak of a Sword, He is referring to the Word of God. So what does this have to do with TWO and why is that Enough. We now have one clue. The next clue is that the Apostles are mentioned. Using the term "apostles" and not "disciples". Additionally, that there are not others but them when this is spoken to them. More on that in a moment
I think you are off on this one. Just because the sword means the sword of the spirit (the word of God) in some passages, it does not mean it can never mean the actual sword, the weapon.
Quote:
Originally Posted by trettep View Post
Good comments. I'm going to tell you what it means by using the scriptures. When Jesus spoke, He spoke parabolically. Therefore, if one were to take Him literally, then they would stumble over what He was speaking. This is why He showed his disciples privately. This is further confirmed by the fact that He rebuked Peter for later using the sword (as Nateswift pointed out.)
So the scriptures tell us that the Sword of the Spirit is the Word of God:
Eph 6:17 And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God:
So we know that when Jesus speak of a Sword, He is referring to the Word of God. So what does this have to do with TWO and why is that Enough. We now have one clue. The next clue is that the Apostles are mentioned. Using the term "apostles" and not "disciples". Additionally, that there are not others but them when this is spoken to them. More on that in a moment
I think you are off on this one. Just because the sword means the sword of the spirit (the word of God) in some passages, it does not mean it can never mean the actual sword, the weapon.
I think you are off on this one. Just because the sword means the sword of the spirit (the word of God) in some passages, it does not mean it can never mean the actual sword, the weapon.
=trettep;31435302]Good comments. I'm going to tell you what it means by using the scriptures. When Jesus spoke, He spoke parabolically.
Jesus was not telling a parable. A parable is a story.
Quote:
Therefore, if one were to take Him literally, then they would stumble over what He was speaking. This is why He showed his disciples privately. This is further confirmed by the fact that He rebuked Peter for later using the sword (as Nateswift pointed out.)
Jesus meaning when he said, "Suffer ye thus far," is highly debated. Many think it was directed not just to Peter but to the armed men. He may have been telling everyone to take it down a notch. The last thing he wanted was someone to be killed.
Quote:
So the scriptures tell us that the Sword of the Spirit is the Word of God:
Eph 6:17 And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God:
Correct.
Quote:
So, when is anything ENOUGH in the scriptures? - there is a case where it is enough. It is here:
Every one of the seven commentaries I've read says, "Enough" meant something along the lines of, "Enough all ready. It's obvious you guys don't get what I'm saying." Barnes says, "This is absurd, or a perversion of my meaning. I did not intend this, but merely to foretell you of impending dangers after my death. Gill says, "it is enough, it is very well, I perceive you do not understand my meaning, and I shall say no more at present."
Quote:
Deu 17:6 At the mouth of two witnesses, or three witnesses, shall he that is worthy of death be put to death; but at the mouth of one witness he shall not be put to death.
This verse is talking about someone being guilty of a crime and put to death. One witness saying for example that you stole something was not sufficient, there needed to be two, three or even more witnesses.
Quote:
So here we have a verse showing when TWO is enough. So what is the link here? - Well what is at the MOUTH? Obviously the Word of God:
The mouth was not the Word of God, but the mouths of the witnesses. It was better for the accusers to provide verbal rather than written condemnation.
Quote:
Mat 18:16 But if he will not hear thee, then take with thee one or two more, that in the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established.
This verse is somewhat similar to Deut 17:6. Here, if a brother is sinning or has wronged someone it is better for more than one person to confront him about it. The mouth of two or three witnesses refers to Jewish Law litigation. Every word may be established means that testimony of several witnesses can be certified.
It's not that I think Jesus meant the two swords were to be used for self defense, though surely they could have been needed for self defense due to what awaited them after Jesus' death. What I disagree with is how you justify your conclusions. I choose to agree with commentators analysis of these verses. These are men who spent lifetimes studying not only The Scriptures but other writings.
Jesus was not telling a parable. A parable is a story.
Jesus meaning when he said, "Suffer ye thus far," is highly debated. Many think it was directed not just to Peter but to the armed men. He may have been telling everyone to take it down a notch. The last thing he wanted was someone to be killed.
Correct.
Every one of the seven commentaries I've read says, "Enough" meant something along the lines of, "Enough all ready. It's obvious you guys don't get what I'm saying." Barnes says, "This is absurd, or a perversion of my meaning. I did not intend this, but merely to foretell you of impending dangers after my death. Gill says, "it is enough, it is very well, I perceive you do not understand my meaning, and I shall say no more at present."
This verse is talking about someone being guilty of a crime and put to death. One witness saying for example that you stole something was not sufficient, there needed to be two, three or even more witnesses.
The mouth was not the Word of God, but the mouths of the witnesses. It was better for the accusers to provide verbal rather than written condemnation.
This verse is somewhat similar to Deut 17:6. Here, if a brother is sinning or has wronged someone it is better for more than one person to confront him about it. The mouth of two or three witnesses refers to Jewish Law litigation. Every word may be established means that testimony of several witnesses can be certified.
It's not that I think Jesus meant the two swords were to be used for self defense, though surely they could have been needed for self defense due to what awaited them after Jesus' death. What I disagree with is how you justify your conclusions. I choose to agree with commentators analysis of these verses. These are men who spent lifetimes studying not only The Scriptures but other writings.
I'll leave you to the men you trust. Thanks for your feedback. I would think you opinion is shared with the majority. I'm looking for the minority.
He was not encouraging them to violence, but He mentioned the swords to make the point that physical danger would be a part of their future missions.
Ok, thanks Finn_Jarber, I understand your position.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
