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Actually, the Rev. Wright was basically driven from the pulpit of his church. Yep. Forced into early retirement for speaking his mind.
But I'm sure he'll appreciate the show of support. Better late than never. Maybe you could call his former parishioners and let them know the First Amendment is now A-OK with the conservatives. I know one lives in a big, white house in Washington, D.C. He might appreciate knowing the conservatives have changed their minds about making unpopular statements.
I don't know if that's true. His congregation certainly knew what he was saying and the overall denominational hierarchy publicly came out in his support.
I agree with these posts. I just think characterizing the beliefs about sin as "hate" is a bit over the top. They are anachronistic and derived from ancient ignorance . . . but they are not inherently hateful. Many who hold those views are guilty of hate and hateful behavior . . . but not all . . . probably only a small minority. The rest are simply misguided by a religious dogma that retains the ancient ignorance as a sign of faith in God. It reflects a zeal to show faith in God as they have been indoctrinated to do . . . but not hate.
I have to disagree - I do think it is hate. If not hate, then it is certainly extreme prejudice and intolerance, and the proof of this is extraordinarily obvious.
The bottom line is that Christians, especially the evangelicals and fundies, have been laser-focused on homosexuals. There are many sins listed in the Bible that one can run afoul of in his or her daily life, some of which even carry the death sentence.
Yet there are no laws, no amendments, no holy-roller crusades to curtail the rights of witches, non-Christians, rebellious kids, people who work on Sunday - and certainly no campaigns to see to it that adulterers never remarry.
No ... ONLY homosexuality is being attacked with actual legislation - actual LAWS - that deliberately and willfully place homosexuals into the category of second class citizens.
If this is simply a problem of being trapped by ancient mysticism, why is most of the mysticism being ignored EXCEPT in this one specific case? Why do Christians not give a fig about Leviticus EXCEPT verse 20:13? And think about this - why did 32 states decide to enshrine anti-gay bigotry into their state constitutions instead of simply passing a law? And why now? Some of these states have had constitutions for over 200 years, yet they waited until NOW for there to be a sudden need to define marriage to the exclusion of gay couples? Do you think that was all a big coincidence?
And why would some states like Kentucky seek to actually amend its anti-bullying laws to allow kids to literally bully other kids just as long as it was done in the name of their religious beliefs?
Why would so many politicians and lawmakers deliberately defy the 1st Amendment by enacting laws and passing amendments that clearly establish a religion?
Why would North Carolina put the vote for its anti-gay amendment on the ballot for the Republican primary unless they KNEW that most Democrats and liberals would stay home since they can't vote in the primaries anyway?
I really don't have the time nor the inclination to try and distinguish between the haters and those who "mean well" but are trapped by ancient moral codes. To my eyes, they are one and the same because the RESULT of their actions are one and the same.
Christians should actually stand down and not come after me for this post because I really don't think it's your fault, per se. What I think is going on is religion being USED by bigots and haters to justify a hatred they would harbor with or without religion. Those Christians who got caught up in this, but who are supposedly "innocent," well, they should know better.
And for those Christians like those on this board who actually rant about homosexuality and then say something Moderator cut: deleted as "No wonder things are falling apart," I would look to your poison brand of religion for an explanation before so much as glancing at homosexuality. After all, the progressive and secular nations of this world are doing much better than we are in every measurable category - well, except in having the most military spending - so blaming it all on gays is just an example of that scapegoating that can drive many of us atheists absolutely crazy.
Last edited by june 7th; 12-20-2013 at 11:11 AM..
Reason: Inappropriate language for this subforum. Insulting to Christian members.
I agree with these posts. I just think characterizing the beliefs about sin as "hate" is a bit over the top. They are anachronistic and derived from ancient ignorance . . . but they are not inherently hateful. Many who hold those views are guilty of hate and hateful behavior . . . but not all . . . probably only a small minority. The rest are simply misguided by a religious dogma that retains the ancient ignorance as a sign of faith in God. It reflects a zeal to show faith in God as they have been indoctrinated to do . . . but not hate.
This is a fair and reasoned defense of what was unwisely said in a media interview . . . especially since they are almost certain to redact the qualifying parts as reported here by Warden. The characterization of Christian views on homosexuality as "Hate" is de rigueur for the media today. I see it more as foolishly retained ancient ignorance and superstition . . . NOT hate. We have no business judging ANY personal human behavior FOR God . . . regardless what we believe about it. We are no good at it. We have enough on our plate to guard our own behavior and attitudes to ensure they reflect "love of God and each other." Sufficient for the day are our secular concerns for maintaining a civil society with fair and just laws, period . . . emphasis on the fair and just!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shirina
I have to disagree - I do think it is hate. If not hate, then it is certainly extreme prejudice and intolerance, and the proof of this is extraordinarily obvious.
The bottom line is that Christians, especially the evangelicals and fundies, have been laser-focused on homosexuals. There are many sins listed in the Bible that one can run afoul of in his or her daily life, some of which even carry the death sentence.
Yet there are no laws, no amendments, no holy-roller crusades to curtail the rights of witches, non-Christians, rebellious kids, people who work on Sunday - and certainly no campaigns to see to it that adulterers never remarry.
No ... ONLY homosexuality is being attacked with actual legislation - actual LAWS - that deliberately and willfully place homosexuals into the category of second class citizens.
If this is simply a problem of being trapped by ancient mysticism, why is most of the mysticism being ignored EXCEPT in this one specific case? Why do Christians not give a fig about Leviticus EXCEPT verse 20:13? And think about this - why did 32 states decide to enshrine anti-gay bigotry into their state constitutions instead of simply passing a law? And why now? Some of these states have had constitutions for over 200 years, yet they waited until NOW for there to be a sudden need to define marriage to the exclusion of gay couples? Do you think that was all a big coincidence?
And why would some states like Kentucky seek to actually amend its anti-bullying laws to allow kids to literally bully other kids just as long as it was done in the name of their religious beliefs?
Why would so many politicians and lawmakers deliberately defy the 1st Amendment by enacting laws and passing amendments that clearly establish a religion?
Why would North Carolina put the vote for its anti-gay amendment on the ballot for the Republican primary unless they KNEW that most Democrats and liberals would stay home since they can't vote in the primaries anyway?
I really don't have the time nor the inclination to try and distinguish between the haters and those who "mean well" but are trapped by ancient moral codes. To my eyes, they are one and the same because the RESULT of their actions are one and the same.
Christians should actually stand down and not come after me for this post because I really don't think it's your fault, per se. What I think is going on is religion being USED by bigots and haters to justify a hatred they would harbor with or without religion. Those Christians who got caught up in this, but who are supposedly "innocent," well, they should know better.
And for those Christians like those on this board who actually rant about homosexuality and then say something as bass ackwards as "No wonder things are falling apart," I would look to your poison brand of religion for an explanation before so much as glancing at homosexuality. After all, the progressive and secular nations of this world are doing much better than we are in every measurable category - well, except in having the most military spending - so blaming it all on gays is just an example of that scapegoating that can drive many of us atheists absolutely crazy.
I agree with you about the misuse of the laws to promote religious bans. God can take care of His own enforcement . . . we have no role to play. Our laws must remain secular with secular justifications . . . not religious. I still see it as misguided ancient ignorance and superstition powered by its use as a sign of faith in God . . . NOT hate. To support your intolerance and prejudice comment . . . I agree that far too much of religion in America is driven by such intolerance and prejudice . . . especially for those seen as unbelievers or sinners. We have no role to play in judging others . . . but the majority of those in Christian religions seem unable to resist the temptation to do so. Our instructions have been to "love God and each other" daily and repent when we don't. If Christians would only follow those instructions much of what you describe would cease.
I will not watch more AE shows until they back down. I am tired of corporate America being the tool of leftist PC types. They have threatened these corporations with boycotts and lawsuits if they do not do the bidding of numerous liberal special interest groups. Corporations do not make money if they are battling lawsuits and boycotts so they just give in. THe power of corporate America is being used to silence those who hold traditional views. If you say something a protected minority group is offended by then that power is used to silence you. It has happened to many famous people, like Phil Robertson and recently Paula Dean. They lost their jobs to this PC. Think this will only happen to stars?? Think again, anyone who says something that goes against corporate culture of their employer could face the same fate. Liberal activist have much influence over Americas biggest companies, read your employee handbook, or look at the company literature. You will likely find diversity postings in your breakroom, or special rules to protect those who are part of these PC protected groups. Liberals could not convince most Americans that homosexuality is normal, so they used their influence in hollywierd to brainwash our children. That has not worked completely so now they use the influence they have over corporate America to hold our jobs over our heads if we don't comply to the "corporate culture" of "diversity and tolerance". We are losing folks, time to step it up. I think we need boycott ALL companies that support this nonsense, hit them in the pocketbook hard, as that is the only protest we can make that they will notice. Will this hurt the economy?? Probably, but I think if we don't do something soon the communist and progressive types will own us. I personally would rather see this country ruined than see it become what they want it to be. Maybe we need secede from the US and start over. The enemy can have the north, they can start their progressive, secular utopia up there. I want no part of it.
Phil Robertson is considered a public figure, which is a bit different from being a private citizen. With public figures, there's really no such thing as being "off the job" since everything a public figure does and says - both on and off the camera - can affect the image of the producers, the audience's perception of the show, the show's ratings, whether advertisers want to purchase time slots during that show, and a bunch of other factors.
Plus, Phil Robertson said all of this during an interview with GQ that Robertson knew would be published. It wasn't as if Robertson said it to some friends while having some beers in his living room.
You seem to have some major misconceptions about how the corporate and governmental world actually works.
The point is I choose to not watch A&E until they correct the wrong they have done. I shall encourage all those of the Christian faith to do likewise. The man gave his opinion and experience. Nothing wrong with that. Seem's a lot of you prefer he lied. But he told the truth from his personal perspective.
The truth sounds like hate to those who hate the truth!
No, I'm not going to support him because of his romantic notions about Jim Crow laws.
That's your right. I have no issue with your personal choice. After all that's all I am doing.
I read his comments and he just told of his personal experience as "white trash" working with blacks at the time. He cannot change his personal experience. I think you need to do more research before making you judgments. But that's my personal opinion for what it's worth.
That's your right. I have no issue with your personal choice. After all that's all I am doing.
I read his comments and he just told of his personal experience as "white trash" working with blacks at the time. He cannot change his personal experience. I think you need to do more research before making you judgments. But that's my personal opinion for what it's worth.
This is 2013. I'm presuming he can read and I'm presuming he went to town now and then, so I'm not granting him any allowances for not being any smarter than he was when he was six. I was in the south at the same time, and I knew a heck of a lot differently; he didn't talk to any of those "happy negros" about how the felt.
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