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Because Peter was the last individual to hold the authority. But, since this particular thread is not about Mormonism, so let's not get off topic.
Yes, I understand that is what you believe. I will say, though, that I admire the fact that the Roman Catholic Church at least recognizes the need for apostolic authority and a legitimate line of succession. This is something that Protestantism lacks entirely. So we have that in common (the understanding of its importance) even if we do not agree as to who holds that authority.
I think Mormons are very cool and I enjoy looking at the Mormon temple when I am driving the beltway (I live outside DC). I don't have any issues with the book of Mormon or Joseph Smith. It is different, but no better or worse than Catholicism or Sola Scriptura folks.
However, the Catholic Church was there ahead of the others and spread Christianity rather well despite all the atrocities and mistakes. We also owe a great deal of our western civilization to the Church. Just take a trip to Europe and see the old history. Catholicism was the biggest force in Western Civilization.
However, the Catholic Church was there ahead of the others and spread Christianity rather well despite all the atrocities and mistakes. We also owe a great deal of our western civilization to the Church. Just take a trip to Europe and see the old history. Catholicism was the biggest force in Western Civilization.
How do you know that? We have no reason to trust what the Catholic church says.
How do you know that? We have no reason to trust what the Catholic church says.
I suggest you take a course in Church history by a non-church affiliated university. Or simply visit the entire European continent to see the effects of Catholicism.
However, the Catholic Church was there ahead of the others and spread Christianity rather well despite all the atrocities and mistakes. We also owe a great deal of our western civilization to the Church. Just take a trip to Europe and see the old history. Catholicism was the biggest force in Western Civilization.
Or simply visit the entire European continent to see the effects of Catholicism.
England hasn't been wholly Catholic for hundreds of years. Then you had the Masonic revolutions and Napoleon, Communism, Rothschilds, National Socialism, Globalism, et al. I fail to see what the Catholic Church had to do with any of these things or with shaping the Europe of today at all. And if you're going to harp on the Inquisitions, it was
the secular rulers and Protestant nations which were the most cruel to witches.
Read this: Defense of the Inquisition
You sound like someone that has never been to mass. There is no praying to saints or statues during mass. The mass is all about Jesus Christ.
Your quote above reaffirms the concept of oral tradition. To transmit and hand down is basically the concept of apostolic succession and sacred oral tradition.
I will never understand why Sola Scriptura folks ignore passages that reaffirm the position of thr Catholic Church.
Believe me, I've been to Mass many, many times. You took what I said in a wrong way: quote: "as I sat in a pew during a Mass, I looked at the statues up front, and wondered why we were praying to them." Yes, I see that I had a bad choice of words. I didn't mean that they were praying at that time, I was wondering WHY they would pray to them whenever they are doing it. And I also mis-wrote that I was praying to them...I never felt comfortable with that.
I see that I have been labeled "Sola Scriptura", which I had to look up to find out what it means; "by scripture only". Well, you got that one right, even though I do believe that it is necessary to consult the Greek and Hebrew texts at times to further close in on what God was saying through scripture. It is incredible to me, that someone would hold words passed down through an organization over the words of Jesus, the apostles, and the rest of the writers of the Bible, which received their words directly from the Holy Spirit, and the canon of scripture has been verified by countless men of God throughout the last almost 2000 years. But you can believe what you want; I'm not here to convince you otherwise. I just wanted to add my direct experiences on the subject. As for the main question of this thread, I say that yes, we should speak out against Catholic doctrine where it is wrong, but we shouldn't try to get personal towards a Catholic person. Everyone can believe as they like. It is not a black mark to be a Catholic...I just personally don't believe that it is the best way to follow God. And YES, I said BEST WAY. I believe that you can follow God in a lot of ways. It's just my choice to find the best way possible. I can show up for a race, but if I'm going to do my best, I should be exercising on a regular basis beforehand and training for this particular race if I expect to give it my best.
Pope Julius was the first Pope. He was elected to the position by men. As you have decided to follow Catholicism, you can believe that he is somehow specially selected by God by some means. I don't. A lot of deterioration happens in 337 years, when he was elected. The idea that he was in succession from Peter, some 300 years before, holds as much authentication as the stories that Peter is at the gates of heaven and decides who comes in.
How does your wife feel about you dropping away from the church? Your list of why you fell away is all false beliefs. Those are not Catholic beliefs. Just because you attended Catholic schools and went to bible study doesn't mean you understand it all, you could have had uninformed teachers or not very good ones.
It seems you did not want to believe what they were teaching you anyway. The statues ARE NOT IDOLS but you continue to believe they are. It's like the teacher teaching you 2 plus 2 is 4 and you say no, it is not. Why go to school if you will not believe what the teacher is teaching? I am interested in finding the truth and I believe the Catholic church has it just like many others have, even Protestant ministers who were out to find the Church wrong but in the end had to agree and convert to it.
Well Janelle, my wife was deeply disturbed. She knew I was right about Catholicism, and she even woke me up one night in a fit thinking that she was going to hell; I never, ever, told her that she would go to hell. I read the Bible a lot and was constantly searching things out, but she desired the easy life; Go to Mass on Sunday, follow the rules, listen to the church, etc. And I didn't fall away, I left it to go forward. As for my wife, she wound up divorcing me because she wanted to go gambling all the time and I didn't. I've got nothing against gambling, per se, but when a wife spends $38,000 in 2 years on one armed bandits, you've got to think that she has a problem. After she divorced me (because of her guilt), she finally had her car repossessed, her house repossessed, and finally lost her job for going to the casino and missing too much work. At the end of the marriage, her gambling caused us to be $1800.oo behind on our house payments. A few days after the divorce, I came across an old discontinued life insurance policy that I had on her. When I cashed it out, they sent me a check for $1806.oo. I gave it to the mortgage company. That was justification enough for me.
Your words are very sharp towards me. Are you offended, or are you defending something? Yes, by the Bible, those things are idols. And Catholics say that they agree with what is written in the Bible, even if it may not be their ultimate determiner on all situations. Well, things made of stone and wood, which people pray to, are idols. And I know of nowhere where God said we should pray to departed spirits, be they saintly or not. There is one mediator, Jesus Christ. Personally, I'm not a Protestant, nor Charismatic, nor Evangelical, nor Apostolic, nor fundamentalist, nor Baptist, nor any other label that you might seem to need to pin on me...I am a follower of the Lord Jesus Christ. Period.
I dont think you should bash a Catholic as a person, but anything that goes against the bible needs to be addressed if it does against scripture. Life is not about being a Christian or believing in and following any creeds, it is about believing Jesus died for your sins, repenting and trying to live your life like he did and how he commanded us to. If someone or something goes against what the bible teaches, it needs to be pointed out and corrected in Love, without name calling, or condemning someone to hell, or calling it the Beast/Anti-Christ worship.
I agree
Quote:
Originally Posted by SAAN
Does the bible command us to have a Pope?
NO
Quote:
Originally Posted by SAAN
Does the bible speak against graven images?
YES
Quote:
Originally Posted by SAAN
Does the bible speak against idolatry and bowing to statues?
YES
Quote:
Originally Posted by SAAN
Doesnt the bible say only God(YHWH) can forgive sins?
YES
Quote:
Originally Posted by SAAN
Doesnt the bible say to only pray to the Father, NOT Mary?
YES
Quote:
Originally Posted by SAAN
Does the bible speak against substituting what God commands
and replacing it with human traditions?
YES
Quote:
Originally Posted by SAAN
Again this is not a Catholic basing, but to really question is Catholicism (mainly RCC) following and teaching what the bible commands or making up its own rules.
England hasn't been wholly Catholic for hundreds of years. Then you had the Masonic revolutions and Napoleon, Communism, Rothschilds, National Socialism, Globalism, et al. I fail to see what the Catholic Church had to do with any of these things or with shaping the Europe of today at all. And if you're going to harp on the Inquisitions, it was
the secular rulers and Protestant nations which were the most cruel to witches.
Read this: Defense of the Inquisition
The English may have separated, but the core of Western Civilization is on the shoulders of the CC. And Protestants are just the offspring. And the success of Protestants is due to the CC been there before them-----you are making my point. If your grandparents never mated you would not be here.
The English may have separated, but the core of Western Civilization is on the shoulders of the CC. And Protestants are just the offspring. And the success of Protestants is due to the CC been there before them-----you are making my point. If your grandparents never mated you would not be here.
Could we also say that the success of the Protestant Reformation also had a positive influence on the RCC?
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But, since this particular thread is not about Mormonism, so let's not get off topic.
