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If the Sabbath was just symbolic or Spiritual, what is the purpose of the Sunday going crowd going to church on Sunday and doing what the Saturday going crowd does.
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Originally Posted by nateswift
The fact that many professing Christians don't know the nature of our Sabbath rest in Christ does nothing to change the fact of it. Like Jews, Christians are fallible. The Way is not.
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Originally Posted by SAAN
Alot of those 1st-century church leaders were very anti Semitic too, so anything Jewish like the Sabbath, they would have been fully against. So you have to ownder if their view on the Sabbath was bias as well.
SAAN, this latest rant has nothing to do with the fact that early Christians recognized that what Jesus taught had nothing to do with the forms and rules of the Mosaic Law, but about our relationship in community with God and man based on that concern for the well-being of everyone in any situation that is the foundation of Christ's "New Covenant."
Why are you on a forum about Christianity promoting Jewish perceptions? Yes there was conflict between followers of the Way and Jews, beginning quite early as recorded in Acts, to the point that the Jews were expelled from Rome for their frequent riots against "Christians." Is this a surprise? Remember that the earliest Christians still thought they were part of the current Hebrew religion until most of them realized the difference.
Let's talk about why Jeremiah felt the need for a "new covenant."
Last edited by nateswift; 06-02-2019 at 08:27 AM..
He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.
How does this particular text fit into the supposed 'new covenant' or hadn't John received the memo yet? By the way, there are lots more similar texts that seem to fly in the face of the 'new covenant' clan.
SAAN, this latest rant has nothing to do with the fact that early Christians recognized that what Jesus taught had nothing to do with the forms and rules of the Mosaic Law, but about our relationship in community with God and man based on that concern for the well-being of everyone in any situation that is the foundation of Christ's "New Covenant."
Why are you on a forum about Christianity promoting Jewish perceptions? Yes there was conflict between followers of the Way and Jews, beginning quite early as recorded in Acts, to the point that the Jews were expelled from Rome for their frequent riots against "Christians." Is this a surprise? Remember that the earliest Christians still thought they were part of the current Hebrew religion until most of them realized the difference.
Let's talk about why Jeremiah felt the need for a "new covenant."
He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.
How does this particular text fit into the supposed 'new covenant' or hadn't John received the memo yet? By the way, there are lots more similar texts that seem to fly in the face of the 'new covenant' clan.
So, Romulus, what you are saying is that we should play the conflicting scriptures game to uphold your SDA programming? There is considerable social pressure within a society used to authoritarian policies and teachings to present such perceptions as norm, forgetting how "the liberty we have in Christ" may be expressed. A better way to put it would be, "does as Jesus taught," but if you don't want to participate in that liberty, continue to be bound.
SAAN, this latest rant has nothing to do with the fact that early Christians recognized that what Jesus taught had nothing to do with the forms and rules of the Mosaic Law, but about our relationship in community with God and man based on that concern for the well-being of everyone in any situation that is the foundation of Christ's "New Covenant."
Why are you on a forum about Christianity promoting Jewish perceptions? Yes there was conflict between followers of the Way and Jews, beginning quite early as recorded in Acts, to the point that the Jews were expelled from Rome for their frequent riots against "Christians." Is this a surprise? Remember that the earliest Christians still thought they were part of the current Hebrew religion until most of them realized the difference.
Let's talk about why Jeremiah felt the need for a "new covenant."
Umm, if you have been on this forum any amount of time, you will see I am a Christian myself and have challenged alot of the Jewish folks that come on here to bash Christians, but Im also quite honest about why I believe what I believe and will admit when I see what I was taught was wrong...(ie Sunday worship stated after the cross an with the apostles).
It seems many Christians will turn a blind eye of the truth of why they do what they do, to defend Christianity vs the actual bible they claim to follow.
All I was doing is pointing out is that people will list what First Century Christians were doing and IGNORE the fact they were very anti Jewish, which is probably led to what their traditions became. God makes the rules, not Church Leaders.
The New Covenant was for the House of Israel only, and that is why we were grafted in, so there is no Jew commands and Christian commands, they way many people believe.
While I really dont think the Sabbath is a big a deal that we make it out to be, the truth is God said keep the Sabbath Day Holy, and it was like that for thousands of years, during and after Christ. Sunday is a RCC tradition and while it isnt wrong to worship Sunday, the truth is it is still a tradition that wasn't commanded of us.
Once again, what Jeremiah had to say about who was to receive the "New Covenant" has no bearing on what Christ instituted, and He clearly made the basis a principle and not a set of rules or laws. What amazes me about those like Richard who defend law is that they claim there is good reason for all the mitzvoth (ignoring any that don't have any) and refuse to acknowledge that any rule or interpretation must be judged by that "reason" or principle it is intended to encompass. Following without such judgement can manifestly lead to foolishness.
No, teaching that Sunday worship is mandated is error, just as teaching that Saturday worship is.
Also is it a sin to work on certain days of the week? I work in retail and my job requires me to work on the weekends and I don't see why it would be a sin to work on a certain day of the week.
A command given to a specific people in the old covenant
I am a Jew so I don't like the OT. Even though it Prophecises about the NT, I try to just read half the book
Hence why I have half the knowledge of salvation, not quite enough. PRAY FOR ME PEOPLE!!
Oh and my wife has a female friend who is a pastor, So there!! Another reason I am doomed to Hades
He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.
How does this particular text fit into the supposed 'new covenant' or hadn't John received the memo yet? By the way, there are lots more similar texts that seem to fly in the face of the 'new covenant' clan.
Quote:
Originally Posted by nateswift
So, Romulus, what you are saying is that we should play the conflicting scriptures game to uphold your SDA programming?
I'm simply presenting scripture, Nate. If it conflicts with your belief then so be it. I didn't write the above scripture, nor did I write the number of other scriptures that speak of obedience to the commandments. And, I have no idea why your so-called 'SDA programming' aimed at me has to do with my quoting scripture other than an attempt to discredit me. SDAs didn't write the scriptures either.
Quote:
Originally Posted by nateswift
There is considerable social pressure within a society used to authoritarian policies and teachings to present such perceptions as norm, forgetting how "the liberty we have in Christ" may be expressed. A better way to put it would be, "does as Jesus taught," but if you don't want to participate in that liberty, continue to be bound.
Do you attend church on a weekly - or a regular - basis, Nate? Well, so do the so-called 'Sabbath-keepers'. So, why are the latter group considered to be 'bound by the law' because they attend church on Saturday while you have 'liberty in Christ' because you attend church on Sunday?
Once again, what Jeremiah had to say about who was to receive the "New Covenant" has no bearing on what Christ instituted, and He clearly made the basis a principle and not a set of rules or laws. What amazes me about those like Richard who defend the law is that they claim there is a good reason for all the mitzvoth (ignoring any that don't have any) and refuse to acknowledge that any rule or interpretation must be judged by that "reason" or principle it is intended to encompass. Following without such judgment can manifestly lead to foolishness.
No, teaching that Sunday worship is mandated is an error, just as teaching that Saturday worship is.
They simply do NOT see all the implications contained in Christ's assertion that the Two Commandments to love God and each other encompass ALL the law. The Two Commandments establish the principle for which ALL the laws were initially introduced to a savage and barbaric species.
They simply do NOT see all the implications contained in Christ's assertion that the Two Commandments to love God and each other encompass ALL the law. The Two Commandments establish the principle for which ALL the laws were initially introduced to a savage and barbaric species.
That's right. The 'loving God' part is obedience to the first 4 commandments. That includes honoring the Creation Sabbath. The 'loving your neighbor' part is adhering to the other 6 commandments of the Big Ten. I do believe that this is known as 'the Royal Law' in the epistle of James (2:8). The command to 'love your neighbor' was initially found in Leviticus 19:9-18 so it has nothing to do with a so-called 'new covenant'.
Commands usually require 'actions' in the form of obedience, even if subliminal. It's against the law to murder someone. However, we don't 'not murder' someone because the law prohibits this but because our inner conscience forbids this. We generally keep the law, i.e. are obedient to precepts and principles, not because we are forced to, but because it's a part of our human nature to do the right thing. And, also to do the wrong thing occasionally. Whatever, we generally know the difference between right and wrong. If anyone keeps the 7th-day Sabbath out of the fear of 'divine negative consequences' if they don't, then they, obviously, do so for the wrong reasons.
As found in Isaiah 58:13-14
If thou turn away thy foot from the Sabbath, from doing thy pleasure on my holy day; and call the Sabbath a delight, the holy of the Lord, honorable; and shalt honor him, not doing thine own ways, nor finding thine own pleasure, nor speaking thine own words:
14 Then shalt thou delight thyself in the Lord; and I will cause thee to ride upon the high places of the earth, and feed thee with the heritage of Jacob thy father: for the mouth of the Lord hath spoken it.
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