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You know, I have been getting the strangest silence on a question I posed that would test this perception, perhaps you would like to respond?
In Leviticus the instruction is given that would allow the owner of a slave to beat him nearly to death, Paul clearly says for masters to treat their slaves with respect, and the current perception of most Christians based on the Golden rule is that owning a slave at all is not right. How do you explain the discrepancies?
I think I answered this elsewhere.
Slaves in Israel were more like indentured servants than the slaves we had here in the US. They were freed after 7 years of work. Most were slaves due to debt. Any "beating" was for discipline (an infraction) and no different than a man disciplining his son. If he killed him, it was murder in either case. The only way under God's law a man could become a permanent slave was to volunteer to be one. The ones who were excessive were not treating their slaves with respect and were deviating from God's law, as Paul was really pointing out.
Do individuals receiving direction from God receive true understanding, yes, but NEVER in contradiction to the Bible, or the spirit giving it is Satan's, not God's.quote]
In contradiction to who's interpretation of the Bible? Don't you see that your statement makes you out to be judge & jury upon someone else's soul?
No it doesn't. Each must make that decision. I take anyone who claims to be a Christian at their word. Of course I also expect them to act like one.
However if the Bible says "flee from idolatry" and another mans says no it is OK to have idols and bow and kiss them, just say it is respect for the one being "idolized", not worship, then it is OK, is a turning away from fleeing and turning back .... towards Idolatry. Which is in obedience to God's clear word to ..... flee..
If it were the only standard for the Truth, why are their so many denominations, each different from the other, claiming to possess that one truth?
There is NO answer to that.
In fact, the book itself doesn't claim to be the one standard. That very claim that either it does, or that it is, is a tradition of man.
Most "denominations" do not claim they alone posses "that one truth". Many of them hold to the same truth. This is a straw-man tactic to claim that your church has "that one truth" because your one denomination is not split into many. Any single denomination could make the same claim based on the circular reasoning involved and intended. We must remember that the church at Rome has birthed more denominations than any other church on earth.
Where in your bible does it say this ?. The spirit is not the bible, and the sooner you understand that the better, for it sounds like what you are saying through your mind already made up, if i am hearing something that does not fit with what i believe, i reject as being non biblical. They tested Jesus Christ and what he had to say in the same way and ended up crucifying him.
He that has an ear to hear let him hear what the spirit has to say.
Read it again. I never said the Bible was the "spirit". God's spirit inspired/directed the writing as the primary means of knowing God. God's spirit also helps us understand and apply it in our life. When two people insist what they believe is correct and spirit given and ... they disagree; the Bible is the referee, not their individual belief that they are right.
Slaves in Israel were more like indentured servants than the slaves we had here in the US. They were freed after 7 years of work. Most were slaves due to debt. Any "beating" was for discipline (an infraction) and no different than a man disciplining his son. If he killed him, it was murder in either case. The only way under God's law a man could become a permanent slave was to volunteer to be one. The ones who were excessive were not treating their slaves with respect and were deviating from God's law, as Paul was really pointing out.
Correct. Slavery among Israelites was a social status, and typically voluntary. This has been answered many times before. Either way it is off topic, so it is best to leave it at that.
Last edited by Finn_Jarber; 04-04-2014 at 09:15 AM..
Since the Bible didn't even exist as a book until the 4th Century, I think not. Plus Christian morality is informed by any number of other influences outside of scriptures from St. Augustine to St. Thomas Aquinas to William Wilberforce to Martin Luther King.
The OT did and all the individual letters existed and were viewed as inspired and true from day one. They were put in "book" form later, but so what? They were viewed as inspired individually long before that.
You would have a point if word actually DID equal scriptures....at least you would for those following the Mosaic Covenant. For the New Covenant, Jesus promised a "Comforter" which is the Holy Spirit to guide and there are some excellent tools to check leadings of the Spirit.
Quote:
You would have a point if word actually DID equal scriptures.
First have you ever read Psa. 119? The word 'Word' (dabar, used 24 times): The idea is of the spoken word, God’s revealed word to man. “Proceeding from his mouth and revealed by him to us.” (Poole)
From the NT: Scriptures, graphe
Scripture: The Greek word (graphe) occurs about 50 times in the NT and always refers to the written record of the utterances of God. This includes writings that make up both the Old and New Testaments.
Quote:
at least you would for those following the Mosaic Covenant
So what are you saying here? Are you saying because Christ gave a new covenant we only speak according to the NT? And yet Christ Himself and His apostles refereed to and or quoted the OT numerous times: words such as, "Have you not read," "It is written in [insert name of OT book]" and the actual quotes from OT books.
Quote:
For the New Covenant, Jesus promised a "Comforter" which is the Holy Spirit to guide
YES He did and He did/does give the Spirit to those who OBEY God. But what did Christ tell His disciples the Spirit would teach them? Did He say something such as this, "Just listen to the man made 'doctrines of THE church in the 21st century because they're the only ones who have the 'truth!"
Joh 14:26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.
Joh 15:26 But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, *he shall testify of me.
*and where are Christs 'words' written down? In many books? Or in the Scriptures?
2Ti 4:3 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;
Tit 1:9 Holding fast the faithful *word as he hath been taught, that he may be able by sound doctrine both to exhort and to convince the gainsayers.
* logos and means the written word
Tit 2:1 But speak thou the things which become sound doctrine:
Last edited by mshipmate; 04-04-2014 at 09:50 AM..
Reason: add Scripture
Slaves in Israel were more like indentured servants than the slaves we had here in the US. They were freed after 7 years of work. Most were slaves due to debt. Any "beating" was for discipline (an infraction) and no different than a man disciplining his son. If he killed him, it was murder in either case. The only way under God's law a man could become a permanent slave was to volunteer to be one. The ones who were excessive were not treating their slaves with respect and were deviating from God's law, as Paul was really pointing out.
Then you missed my response to your half truth. Check again. That kind of slavery was only ONE kind that was practiced in Israel, and beating to within an inch of his life is not consistent with debt slavery. Slaves were also acquired in war and those who had been born into slavery to name just two kinds. And check the point carefully in the quote: if the slave did not die for a couple of days it was ok, because he was just "property."
Are you going to answer it with the WHOLE truth this time?
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Don't you see that your statement makes you out to be judge & jury upon someone else's soul?
