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There are many verses in the OT that speak of the servant of God that Christianity says are referring to Jesus. But there is one that speaks of the son as the servant.
"Israel is my son, my first born, let my son go so he can serve me." says the Lord
Here God is saying Israel is His son who must serve Him. So the son of God is the servant of God. Mainstream Christianity explains this away saying Israel is not Gods only begotten son but really a firstborn son is the most prescious son. I'm not saying Jesus was not Gods son because he was. He was the example of a genuine servant of the Lord or Israel. Though He wants us all to be Israel, Gods son and servant. He said ,"follow me."
"Come to me all you who are weary and carry a heavy load and I will give you rest. Take my yoke upon you and learn from me for I am meek and humble of heart and you will find rest for yourselves for my yoke is upright and my burden is light."
No, I'm not using a faulty translation. And as shown in post #60, Dr. Dan Wallace who is a highly respected Greek scholar shows that John 1:1 says that Jesus is God. .
John 1:1 say Jesus is God, correct.
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That is to say, the word order tells us that Jesus Christ has all the divine attributes that the Father has; lack of the article tells us that Jesus Christ is not the Father.
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so if Jesus is not the Father then he is not God, for there is ONLY ONE God, see above.
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Refer to Myth 5: The deity of Christ was invented by emperor Constantine.
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Altogether, we have more than fifty Greek New Testament manuscripts that are prior to Constantine’s reign. Not one of them denies the deity of Christ.
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by not being the Father, see your second quote, he is either a separate God, or a god. and please remember Phil 2:6, because the form of God is his Nature. and our Lord Jesus have the same nature. so then your two statements contradict one another. because if Jesus have the same nature, but as you said in the second quote above that he is not the father. then you have another person, and that's polytheism.
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The Bible does not teach polytheism. While it speaks of false gods and refers to human judges as god, there is only one true God. The God who brought all things into existence. And Jesus is specifically stated to have created all that has been created and that He holds all things together. (John 1:3; Col. 1:16-17).Therefore, in John 1:1 Jesus is not being called 'a god', He is being called God. Not the Father, but the Son.
those statements are in contradictory of itself. in John 1:1 if Jesus is God, but not the father, then he's a separate God, or god. because you said that he have all the deity, and deity describe either God the supreme, or a god. but you said that Jesus is God in John 1:1. so if he's God in 1:1 then he is the father. if not then you have stepped into polytheism by definition. for if the title is separate then the person is separate, or if the titles are the same then the person is the same. and I see different titles. because your doctrine of the trinity states, "one God in three persons". The three persons are distinct as you say, yet are one substance, essence or nature. In this context, a nature is what one is, while a "person" is who one is of the same substance, essence or nature, then that person claiming to be distinct is not the same person, but another person, hence again two person, which means polytheism by definition.
so if Jesus is not the Father then he is not God, for there is ONLY ONE God, see above.
by not being the Father, see your second quote, he is either a separate God, or a god. and please remember Phil 2:6, because the form of God is his Nature. and our Lord Jesus have the same nature. so then your two statements contradict one another. because if Jesus have the same nature, but as you said in the second quote above that he is not the father. then you have another person, and that's polytheism.
those statements are in contradictory of itself. in John 1:1 if Jesus is God, but not the father, then he's a separate God, or god. because you said that he have all the deity, and deity describe either God the supreme, or a god. but you said that Jesus is God in John 1:1. so if he's God in 1:1 then he is the father. if not then you have stepped into polytheism by definition. for if the title is separate then the person is separate, or if the titles are the same then the person is the same. and I see different titles. because your doctrine of the trinity states, "one God in three persons". The three persons are distinct as you say, yet are one substance, essence or nature. In this context, a nature is what one is, while a "person" is who one is of the same substance, essence or nature, then that person claiming to be distinct is not the same person, but another person, hence again two person, which means polytheism by definition.
I advise you to look back over your statements.
And I advise you to study the doctrine of the Trinity. There is nothing contradictory in what I have said.
The One true God is the triune God - the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. God is one in one way, and three in a different way. God is a united one in terms of His essence or nature, but God is three 'Persons' who are inseparably united as one God. All three 'Persons' of the Trinity possess the same attributes which are the essence of God. Those attributes are sovereignty, omnipotence, omniscience, omnipresence, righteousness, justice, eternal life, immutability, love, veracity.
And I advise you to study the doctrine of the Trinity. There is nothing contradictory in what I have said.
The One true God is the triune God - the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. God is one in one way, and three in a different way. God is a united one in terms of His essence or nature, but God is three 'Persons' who are inseparably united as one God. All three 'Persons' of the Trinity possess the same attributes which are the essence of God. Those attributes are sovereignty, omnipotence, omniscience, omnipresence, righteousness, justice, eternal life, immutability, love, veracity.
listen to your quote, "That is to say, the word order tells us that Jesus Christ has all the divine attributes that the Father has; lack of the article tells us that Jesus Christ is not the Father". but listen to scripture, 1 Corinthians 8:6 "But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him”. you said that Jesus Christ is not the father. if so then he is not God according to your statement. because scripture clearly states, the only God, is the father". if Jesus Christ is not the father as you say, then he is not the "ONE" God, you claim. look at your statements again, all of them.
And I advise you to study the doctrine of the Trinity. There is nothing contradictory in what I have said.
The One true God is the triune God - the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. God is one in one way, and three in a different way. God is a united one in terms of His essence or nature, but God is three 'Persons' who are inseparably united as one God. All three 'Persons' of the Trinity possess the same attributes which are the essence of God. Those attributes are sovereignty, omnipotence, omniscience, omnipresence, righteousness, justice, eternal life, immutability, love, veracity.
listen to your quote, "That is to say, the word order tells us that Jesus Christ has all the divine attributes that the Father has; lack of the article tells us that Jesus Christ is not the Father". but listen to scripture, 1 Corinthians 8:6 "But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him”. you said that Jesus Christ is not the father. if so then he is not God according to your statement. because scripture clearly states, the only God, is the father". if Jesus Christ is not the father as you say, then he is not the "ONE" God, you claim. look at your statements again, all of them.
I have already explained 1 Cornithians 8:6 in post #79.
Again, read up on the doctrine of the Trinity and make an effort to understand what I have already said.
I have already explained 1 Cornithians 8:6 in post #79.
Again, read up on the doctrine of the Trinity and make an effort to understand what I have already said.
I think you better re-read what you said in post #79. 1 Corinthians 8:6 said nothing about "LORD", or "Lord". it said "God is Father", and Jesus Christ is "Lord". then you misquoted, "Matthew 22:44“‘The Lord (God the Father) said to my Lord (Jesus Christ), “Sit at my right hand, until I put your enemies under your feet”’?". my first question is this. if both are Lord, how can you say "Lord", God the Father" is that Lord. when both is Lord?. and two if both is Lord then how can one be the father and the other the son?, that's if both are Lord. so that bring us back to the titles of father and Son. but you said, "1 Corinthians 8:6 is not saying that Jesus isn't God just as it is not saying that God the Father is not LORD". but the scripture, 1 Corinthians 8:6 is saying that God is Father, and hence he is "LORD". and you said that Jesus is not the father, so if Jesus is not the Father, (as you say), then he is not God. see, you contradict yourself again.
I think you better re-read what you said in post #79. 1 Corinthians 8:6 said nothing about "LORD", or "Lord". it said "God is Father", and Jesus Christ is "Lord". then you misquoted, "Matthew 22:44“‘The Lord (God the Father) said to my Lord (Jesus Christ), “Sit at my right hand, until I put your enemies under your feet”’?". my first question is this. if both are Lord, how can you say "Lord", God the Father" is that Lord. when both is Lord?. and two if both is Lord then how can one be the father and the other the son?, that's if both are Lord. so that bring us back to the titles of father and Son. but you said, "1 Corinthians 8:6 is not saying that Jesus isn't God just as it is not saying that God the Father is not LORD". but the scripture, 1 Corinthians 8:6 is saying that God is Father, and hence he is "LORD". and you said that Jesus is not the father, so if Jesus is not the Father, (as you say), then he is not God. see, you contradict yourself again.
Pay attention to what I said. Here is post #79 again. And no, I did not misquote Matthew 22:44
[quote=Mike555;34662784]That verse - 1 Corinthians 8:6 is not saying that Jesus isn't God just as it is not saying that God the Father is not LORD. As can be plainly seen from Matthew 22:44, both God the Father and Jesus Christ are Lord.
Matthew 22:44“‘The Lord (God the Father) said to my Lord (Jesus Christ), “Sit at my right hand, until I put your enemies under your feet”’?
Matthew 22:41 Now while the Pharisees were gathered together, Jesus asked them a question: 42] "What do you think about the Christ, whose son is He?" They said to Him, "The son of David." 43] He said to them, "Then how does David in the Spirit call Him 'Lord,' saying, 44] “‘The Lord said to my Lord, “Sit at my right hand, until I put your enemies under your feet”’? 45] "If David then calls Him 'Lord,' how is He his son?" 46] No one was able to answer Him a word, nor did anyone dare from that day on to ask Him another question.
1 Corinthians 8:6 is distinguishing the true God - the triune God, from the false gods and idols of men as the context of the passage shows.
You can see from Matthew 22:44 that both God the Father and Jesus Christ are Lord. Therefore, Paul is not saying in 1 Corinthians 8:6 that God the Father is not Lord just as he is not saying that Jesus is not God. Compare Scripture with Scripture. Paul is distinguishing the true God who is triune, from the false god's of men. He is not saying that Jesus is not God. He plainly states in Philippians 2:5-8 that Jesus IS God. Again, compare Scripture with Scripture.
However, you seem interested only in debating rather than objectively looking at the issue.
[quote=Mike555;34697314]Pay attention to what I said. Here is post #79 again. And no, I did not misquote Matthew 22:44
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Originally Posted by Mike555
That verse - 1 Corinthians 8:6 is not saying that Jesus isn't God just as it is not saying that God the Father is not LORD. As can be plainly seen from Matthew 22:44, both God the Father and Jesus Christ are Lord.
Matthew 22:44“‘The Lord (God the Father) said to my Lord (Jesus Christ), “Sit at my right hand, until I put your enemies under your feet”’?
Matthew 22:41 Now while the Pharisees were gathered together, Jesus asked them a question: 42] "What do you think about the Christ, whose son is He?" They said to Him, "The son of David." 43] He said to them, "Then how does David in the Spirit call Him 'Lord,' saying, 44] “‘The Lord said to my Lord, “Sit at my right hand, until I put your enemies under your feet”’? 45] "If David then calls Him 'Lord,' how is He his son?" 46] No one was able to answer Him a word, nor did anyone dare from that day on to ask Him another question.
1 Corinthians 8:6 is distinguishing the true God - the triune God, from the false gods and idols of men as the context of the passage shows.
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Originally Posted by Mike555
You can see from Matthew 22:44 that both God the Father and Jesus Christ are Lord. Therefore, Paul is not saying in 1 Corinthians 8:6 that God the Father is not Lord just as he is not saying that Jesus is not God. Compare Scripture with Scripture. Paul is distinguishing the true God who is triune, from the false god's of men. He is not saying that Jesus is not God. He plainly states in Philippians 2:5-8 that Jesus IS God. Again, compare Scripture with Scripture.
However, you seem interested only in debating rather than objectively looking at the issue.
OK, you pay attention, one question, is Jesus Christ "LORD", all cap. YES, or NO?.
it's interesting, when someone ask a serious question, the other party thinks that they are debating. no, if one look at the facts presented, one can see that there is a contradiction in one's statements. if one say Jesus Christ is not the "Father", but yet he is "God", that's a contradiction. for the scriptures states that there is only one Father, and he is "God". and two, if Jesus Christ is not the Father, was he the God of the old testament, known as the LORD, YES. see scriptures below. but the trinity doctrine states that the Son is not the Father. is not our Lord Jesus the First and the Last?, yes. is not the "LORD", all caps, (the Father), the first and the Last?, (see Isa 41:4), and (Isa 44:6). and is not the First and the Last the Alpha & the Omega, (see Rev 22:13). and is not the Alpha & the Omega the "Almighty", (see Rev 1:8). this is the same person, but yet the trinity doctrine states that the father is not the son. if so, then one have two Gods.
be blessed. NO argument, just asking for one to reconcile the two titles Father, and Son.
be blessed. NO argument, just asking for one to reconcile the two titles Father, and Son.
You simply perform a magic trick called "hypostatic union."
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