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the scriptures are clear. there is no "god" WITH him, or any "God", and that with a cap "G", also. so that eliminate the first -third person in a so called trinity. the only companion God have is the share of himself. see Zec 13:7.
and the so called gods is just that, so call. Psalms 96:5 "For all the gods of the nations are idols: but the LORD made the heavens". and God is no Idol, or have association with them.
and as for John 1:1c in context with God, John 1:14 eliminate that also. that's the share,
also what about Isaiah 35:5
Where you have a problem (one of many) is that in the original languages there is no lower and upper case letters so the words of Moses and an angel would look like this.
Dr. Dan Wallace, an expert in the Greek language disagrees with you as do so many other Greek language experts. More importantly, the Bible disagrees with you. Jesus Christ as God created everything that has been created as stated in John 1:3 and Colossians 1:16-17.
Jesus Christ is the Second Person of the trinity.
Actually virtually every scholar is in agreement that John 1:1 c is "a god, divine, deity, like God etc".
"God" is Definite and in John 1:1c it isn't
a god, divine, deity, etc is Indefinite and the vast majority agree it is ... indefinite.
This particular construction is a PVPN, If you do not know what that means ask.
Note the following comments.
William Barclay "You could translate [John 1:1c], so far as the Greek goes: `the Word was a God'; p. 205, Ever yours, edited by C. L. Rawlins, Labarum Publ., 1985
In his Daily Study Bible Series: The Gospel of John (volumes 1 and 2), Westminster Press, 1975, Barclay tells us: "When John said `the Word was God' he was not saying that Jesus was identical with God; he was saying...that in him we perfectly see what God is like." - p. 39, vol. 1. He further clarifies this understanding on pp. 143-144, 161-162, of vol. 2:
[J. H. Bernard, A Critical and Exegetical Commentary on the Gospel according to St. John (New York: Scribner, 1929) 1, 2.] In a similar way W. F. Howard writes that theos and ho logos are not interchangeable. Otherwise, he continues, "the writer could not say 'the Word was with God.' [W. F. Howard, The Gospel according to St. John (IB 8; New York: Abingdon-Cokesbury. 1952) 464.] (Both writers, in effect, are arguing that the predicate theos cannot be regarded as definite in this clause)
The qualitative force is obvious and most important,—Alfred M. Perry, “Translating The Greek Article” in Journal of Biblical Literature, 1949.”
The predicate [noun] commonly refers not to an individual or individuals as such, but to the class to which the subject belongs, to the nature or quality predicated of the subject; e.g. Jo I, 1 [kai theos en ho logos], which attributes to the Word the divine nature,—Maximilian Zerwich, S.J., Biblical Greek, Rome, Scriptua Pontificii Instituti Biblici (Pontifical Biblical Scripture Institute), p. 55.
“The Word was divine”—The Original New Testament, Hough J. Schonfield, 1984
The list is very long and in every case the facts of grammar are used. There are dozens of Bible translations using the Indefinite Qualitative (Some just say Qualitative) and favor it, as do thew scholars.
An example of the same construction.
KJV John 6:70 Jesus answered them, Have not I chosen you twelve, and one of you is a devil?
I can't understand why people cannot believe that there is only one God as the scriptures states, and he's only one person. and this one PERSON is shared in flesh and bone.
Psalms 86:10 "For thou art great, and doest wondrous things: thou art God alone".
if he is alone, that settles it. what about alone do people don't understand?.
Isaiah 44:8 "Fear ye not, neither be afraid: have not I told thee from that time, and have declared it? ye are even my witnesses. Is there a God beside me? yea, there is no God; I know not any".
there is no God before or after him, again that settles it.
but just as the rebellious one in the deserts in their unbelief, their bodies dropped. so the same today. UNBELIFE.
Since it is evident in the Greek that Jesus is God, and since the entire gospel of John emphasizes the deity of Jesus, alleging poor translations and lack of contextual consideration is without merit.
The following article quotes Dan Wallace - randphoenix: John 1:1 and Greek Exegesis. Dr. Wallace, an excellent Greek scholar makes this comment regarding John 1:1.
A good illustration of this is John 1:1c...We know that 'the Word' is the subject because it has the definite article, and we translate it accordingly: 'and the Word was God.'...why was theos thrown forward?...why does it lack the article? In brief, its emphatic position stresses its essence or quality: 'What God was, the Word was" is how one translation brings out its force. Its lack of a definite article keeps us from identifying the person of the Word...with the person of 'God'(The Father).
That is to say, the word order tells us that Jesus Christ has all the divine attributes that the Father has; lack of the article tells us that Jesus Christ is not the Father. John's wording here is beautifully compact! It is, in fact, one of the most elegantly terse theological statements one could ever find. As Martin Luther said, the lack of an article is against Sabellianism; the word order is against Arianism.
Refer to Myth 5: The deity of Christ was invented by emperor Constantine.
Excerpt:
Altogether, we have more than fifty Greek New Testament manuscripts that are prior to Constantine’s reign. Not one of them denies the deity of Christ. [Bolded mine]
Quote:
Originally Posted by expatCA
Actually virtually every scholar is in agreement that John 1:1 c is "a god, divine, deity, like God etc".
"God" is Definite and in John 1:1c it isn't
a god, divine, deity, etc is Indefinite and the vast majority agree it is ... indefinite.
This particular construction is a PVPN, If you do not know what that means ask.
Note the following comments.
William Barclay "You could translate [John 1:1c], so far as the Greek goes: `the Word was a God'; p. 205, Ever yours, edited by C. L. Rawlins, Labarum Publ., 1985
In his Daily Study Bible Series: The Gospel of John (volumes 1 and 2), Westminster Press, 1975, Barclay tells us: "When John said `the Word was God' he was not saying that Jesus was identical with God; he was saying...that in him we perfectly see what God is like." - p. 39, vol. 1. He further clarifies this understanding on pp. 143-144, 161-162, of vol. 2:
[J. H. Bernard, A Critical and Exegetical Commentary on the Gospel according to St. John (New York: Scribner, 1929) 1, 2.] In a similar way W. F. Howard writes that theos and ho logos are not interchangeable. Otherwise, he continues, "the writer could not say 'the Word was with God.' [W. F. Howard, The Gospel according to St. John (IB 8; New York: Abingdon-Cokesbury. 1952) 464.] (Both writers, in effect, are arguing that the predicate theos cannot be regarded as definite in this clause)
The qualitative force is obvious and most important,—Alfred M. Perry, “Translating The Greek Article” in Journal of Biblical Literature, 1949.”
The predicate [noun] commonly refers not to an individual or individuals as such, but to the class to which the subject belongs, to the nature or quality predicated of the subject; e.g. Jo I, 1 [kai theos en ho logos], which attributes to the Word the divine nature,—Maximilian Zerwich, S.J., Biblical Greek, Rome, Scriptua Pontificii Instituti Biblici (Pontifical Biblical Scripture Institute), p. 55.
“The Word was divine”—The Original New Testament, Hough J. Schonfield, 1984
The list is very long and in every case the facts of grammar are used. There are dozens of Bible translations using the Indefinite Qualitative (Some just say Qualitative) and favor it, as do thew scholars.
An example of the same construction.
KJV John 6:70 Jesus answered them, Have not I chosen you twelve, and one of you is a devil?
You would have to back up your claim that virtually every scholar thinks that John 1:1 is saying that the Word was 'a god.' And those who do make that claim are in error as a comparison of Scripture with Scripture shows.
You are using the argument that Jehovah's Witnesses use. And it is not valid.
The Bible is clear that there is only one true God (Isaiah 43:10; 44:6,8). And since it is that one true God who created the heavens and the earth (Genesis 1:1), and since Jesus is declared to have created the heavens and the earth (John 1:3, Col. 1:16-17, Psalm 33:6), then Jesus Christ is one of the three Persons of the Trinity that is the one true God. And therefore, Scripture compared with Scripture forbids John 1:1 from saying that the Word was 'a god'. It is saying that Jesus is God. He is not the Father, but He is the Second Person of the Trinity.
Furthermore, it is clear from Zechariah 14:1-4 that Jesus is Yahweh as it is Jesus who when He returns will step foot on the Mount of Olives. And yet, the Father is also Yahweh.
Last edited by Michael Way; 05-04-2014 at 08:17 PM..
Where you have a problem (one of many) is that in the original languages there is no lower and upper case letters so the words of Moses and an angel would look like this.
"GOD OF GODS"
Psalms 86:10 "For thou art great, and doest wondrous things: thou art God alone".
the word "alone" settles it for me.
1 Corinthians 8:5 "For though there be that are called gods, whether in heaven or in earth, (as there be gods many, and lords many,). 6 But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.
for the "Lord" is "God" in flesh and bone, (see Rev 4:8 and many others). "Lord" + "God" = Lord God. the same person, only shared in flesh and bone as a MAN.
People like to mention how the definite article isn't present in John 1:1, but what about the other places in John where the definite article is not present? For example, would you claim it is not referring to The God, but only "a god" in John 1:6? Because there is no definite article there.
Jhn 1:6 There was a man sent from God, whose name was John.
in other words..."There was a man sent from "a god", whose name was John."
Or what about John 1:18? No definite article there either
Jhn 1:18 No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.
So should it be "No man hath seen "a god" at anytime?"
I imagine most people dont have a problem with it referring to "The God" in those verses, even though the definite article isn't present, because it doesn't harm their doctrine.
What if Jesus is not the God, but a servant of God?
"For us there is but one God, the Father, from whom are all things; and we exist for Him.
And one Lord, Jesus Christ, by whom are all things; and we exist through Him."
What if Jesus is not the God, but a servant of God?
"For us there is but one God, the Father, from whom are all things; and we exist for Him.
And one Lord, Jesus Christ, by whom are all things; and we exist through Him."
That verse - 1 Corinthians 8:6 is not saying that Jesus isn't God just as it is not saying that God the Father is not LORD. As can be plainly seen from Matthew 22:44, both God the Father and Jesus Christ are Lord.
Matthew 22:44“‘The Lord (God the Father) said to my Lord (Jesus Christ), “Sit at my right hand, until I put your enemies under your feet”’?
Matthew 22:41 Now while the Pharisees were gathered together, Jesus asked them a question: 42] "What do you think about the Christ, whose son is He?" They said to Him, "The son of David." 43] He said to them, "Then how does David in the Spirit call Him 'Lord,' saying, 44] “‘The Lord said to my Lord, “Sit at my right hand, until I put your enemies under your feet”’? 45] "If David then calls Him 'Lord,' how is He his son?" 46] No one was able to answer Him a word, nor did anyone dare from that day on to ask Him another question.
1 Corinthians 8:6 is distinguishing the true God - the triune God, from the false gods and idols of men as the context of the passage shows.
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