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Now excuse me for pointing out the obvious! How can you claim for a fact that Mary is alive and in heaven if you also claim you think it would be arrogant to "pretend i know" concerning the afterlife? Do you not see your contradiction here?
RD, it is possible to use reason and be Christian. From a logical point of view I cannot be certain there is an afterlife. Within Christianity an afterlife is accepted, but it is an act of faith.
It is possible to separate faith and logic. I don't have any problems in creating these compartments. Others cannot do this.
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I would also point out you claim you cannot know that which scripture clearly states and then you claim to know for a fact something that scripture does not even mention.
I congratulate you for having blind faith which leads to 100% certainty. My faith is not like that and I leave room for something else. I am ready for the afterlife, but i am also ready for NOTHING.
Julian,
Thank you for answering. I don't fault you for not claiming CERTAINTY. In fact, it's quite a rare thing to find a Christian who is willing to admit that they are not CERTAIN about everything. Yet isn't this the reason we need to have faith (and hope) because we are not CERTAIN of the mysteries hidden from us. So I commend you and I appreciate that you were not offended by my question.
I think it was a very good question.
And this is a question that many are afraid to ask.
The teachings of Jesus is more than enough for me. The story of Christianity is inspiring and that is good enough for me. I don't expect anything in return.
I love Mary, I think is a breath of fresh air to have the Mother of Jesus around and God knows the "Ave Maria" by Schubert is masterpiece, Mostly played at weddings. Can you accept differences among Christians?
Let's stick to the facts, as Elwood P. Dowd suggested in Harvey. Mary was indeed the mother of Jesus. But the designation of Mary as "Mother of Jesus" was specifically rejected (indeed, condemned) nearly 1600 years ago in favor of "Mother of God." A minor point to some, perhaps, but the idea that anyone would be designated the Mother of God was one of the first things that sent my Strange-O-Meter into the ozone many years ago and piqued my interest in Catholicism. I could accept "Birth Mother of the Son of God in His Earthly Incarnation," which we could agree to conveniently abbreviate as BMOSOGIHEI. "Queen of Heaven" also sends the Strange-O-Meter into the red zone. As I said previously, I can assure everyone that I'm a good Christian but just happen to believe on the basis of extra-biblical evidence that Jesus was a reptilian alien, but I think most Christians would say, "No, you cannot just engraft onto Christianity anything you want and still call it Christianity. You can call it a religion, but it is not Christianity." For someone to try to convince me that even though the New Testament and other foundational Christian documents barely take notice of Mary apart from the Virgin Birth narratives, but she was nevertheless there in the background as the acknowledged Mother of God and Queen of Heaven -- well, sorry, but the Strange-O-Meter just melted down.
Let's stick to the facts, as Elwood P. Dowd suggested in Harvey. Mary was indeed the mother of Jesus. But the designation of Mary as "Mother of Jesus" was specifically rejected (indeed, condemned) nearly 1600 years ago in favor of "Mother of God." A minor point to some, perhaps, but the idea that anyone would be designated the Mother of God was one of the first things that sent my Strange-O-Meter into the ozone many years ago and piqued my interest in Catholicism. I could accept "Birth Mother of the Son of God in His Earthly Incarnation," which we could agree to conveniently abbreviate as BMOSOGIHEI. "Queen of Heaven" also sends the Strange-O-Meter into the red zone. As I said previously, I can assure everyone that I'm a good Christian but just happen to believe on the basis of extra-biblical evidence that Jesus was a reptilian alien, but I think most Christians would say, "No, you cannot just engraft onto Christianity anything you want and still call it Christianity. You can call it a religion, but it is not Christianity." For someone to try to convince me that even though the New Testament and other foundational Christian documents barely take notice of Mary apart from the Virgin Birth narratives, but she was nevertheless there in the background as the acknowledged Mother of God and Queen of Heaven -- well, sorry, but the Strange-O-Meter just melted down.
You completely discount the Oral Tradition which was the predominant way top spread Christianity.
The Bible says nothing about the martyrdom of Peter and Paul, but we know about it because of Oral Tradition. The bible says nothing about the ministry of many other disciples. That does not mean they did not go out to spread Christianity.
The post resurrection era did not have a written NT. Christianity was done with Oral Tradition. And the early Christians knew about Mary that is why she gradually became more important.
You also ignore the tradition of honoring the martyrs as saints in early Christianity. When you go Sola Scriptura, you give away a HUGE chunk of Christianity.
She still died. I see nothing in scripture to indicate that she bypassed the grave.
The point also remains that Catholics are taught to pray to Saints -- who have also died.
The fact that they even make people saints shows how wrongheaded they are when it comes to Jesus and true Christianity. Then you have the Papacy telling all of their followers that the pope is the Vicar of Christ, which means that he takes the place of Jesus Christ, which of course is completely blasphemous at the very least, and definitely goes against the Bible and Jesus' teachings by teaching false teachings. One of the many false teachings happens to be telling their followers, and I know this since I was raised Catholic, to confess their sins to a priest and by doing penitence that said priest gives them, they will be forgiven. That, in itself, is totally against the Bible because Jesus, Himself, said that the only way to God is through Him and that all we need to do is to ask forgiveness from God in Jesus' name. Then, of course, you have the idol worship they have within all of their churches, beautiful as they may be. The last one I will mention here is the Papacy making saints out of people. How ignorant is that? Totally against the Bible also, by once again, going against Jesus' own mouth and the true scriptures of the Bible.
The fact that they even make people saints shows how wrongheaded they are when it comes to Jesus and true Christianity.
You are not well versed in Catholicism, easy prey for the Sola Scriptura folks. There is nothing wrong in honoring those that lived like good Christians.
Then you have the Papacy telling all of their followers that the pope is the Vicar of Christ, which means that he takes the place of Jesus Christ
Have you read John 21: 15-17????????? Now i can see you were easy pray to the Sola Scriptura folks. Yo are regurgitatiing their anti-Catholic dogma without analyzing the bible.
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to confess their sins to a priest and by doing penitence that said priest gives them, they will be forgiven. That, in itself, is totally against the Bible because Jesus, Himself, said that the only way to God is through Him and that all we need to do is to ask forgiveness from God in Jesus' name.
OMG, I you sure you were Catholic????? Please read the bible. Do not listen to your preacher, he is just teaching you standard anti-catholic dogma. This is what Jesus said to the Apostles (see bold):
John 20:21-23
King James Version (KJV)
21 Then said Jesus to them again, Peace be unto you: as my Father hath sent me, even so send I you.
22 And when he had said this, he breathed on them, and saith unto them, Receive ye the Holy Ghost:
23 Whose soever sins ye remit, they are remitted unto them; and whose soever sins ye retain, they are retained.
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once again, going against Jesus' own mouth and the true scriptures of the Bible.
Listen to yourself! Then read the above verses John 21: 15-17 and John 20:21-23 with your minister.
RD, it is possible to use reason and be Christian. From a logical point of view I cannot be certain there is an afterlife. Within Christianity an afterlife is accepted, but it is an act of faith.
It is possible to separate faith and logic. I don't have any problems in creating these compartments. Others cannot do this.
I congratulate you for having blind faith which leads to 100% certainty. My faith is not like that and I leave room for something else. I am ready for the afterlife, but i am also ready for NOTHING.
But you did not address how, based on what you said above, you can say with absolute certainty that Mary is in Heaven and knows the thief who hung beside Jesus? Therein is the entire point of my original post that you avoided dealing with.
But you did not address how, based on what you said above, you can say with absolute certainty that Mary is in Heaven and knows the thief who hung beside Jesus? Therein is the entire point of my original post that you avoided dealing with.
OK, we are talking in the context of Christianity.
Outside Christianity, I only know I know nothing. It would be arrogant from my part to claim I know all those things.
When I discussed religion with you I do it within the context of Catholicism which is part of may cultural heritage.
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