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Rom 2:6 Who will render to every man according to his works:
Rom 2:7 To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life:
Now Romans 2:6-7 does have Paul saying that Eternal life will be based on works. Check it yourself. Don't just simply reply with other verses. But since you did, let me explain how they don't contradict.
Eph 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
Eph 2:9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.
Notice that in verse 8 it says "not of yourselves". The works that Ephesians is saying that don't save you are those belonging to US.
Now how do we sort out the works that Pauls says are required for Eternal life in Romans verses those that can't get you Eternal Life in Ephesians? -
Simple - Depends on who the works belong to. The ones that get us Eternal Life are those works that belong to Christ. Those in Ephesians are those that are OUR works - or those that we do which are selfish and don't bring salvation.
Remember Peter said that those that WORK Righteousness are ACCEPTABLE to God.
Act_10:35 But in every nation he that feareth him, and worketh righteousness, is accepted with him.
I would ask you (if you still don't believe me), for you to tell me how you reconcile the verses in Ephesians with those in Romans. I tell you that there is no other way but what I provided.
As I am sure I have pointed out before, Romans 2:7 is hypothetical. Paul then went on to say in Romans 3:20 that no flesh will be justified by works of the law. Paul is building his argument in the early chapters of Romans that man cannot be justified by his own works of righteousness, but only through faith in Christ by which the righteousness of God is credited to us for justification.
Here. Read this transcript of Dr. Dean's class where Romans 2:6-7 is addressed. - No One is Good Enough
Transcripts for the rest of Romans are here. - No title
I'm not sure if you will bother to read them, but they are there for whoever will.
As I am sure I have pointed out before, Romans 2:7 is hypothetical. Paul then went on to say in Romans 3:20 that no flesh will be justified by works of the law. Paul is building his argument in the early chapters of Romans that man cannot be justified by his own works of righteousness, but only through faith in Christ by which the righteousness of God is credited to us for justification.
Here. Read this transcript of Dr. Dean's class where Romans 2:6-7 is addressed. - No One is Good Enough
Transcripts for the rest of Romans are here. - No title
I'm not sure if you will bother to read them, but they are there for whoever will.
Your not distinguishing between the works of Christ and Our Works.
Peter said the following:
Act_10:35 But in every nation he that feareth him, and worketh righteousness, is accepted with him.
Obviously here we see that Peter says that Works are a requirement of being accepted of Him. These works - do you think they are referring to OUR works or His works done by Christ in believers?
Since we read that our works are a filthy rags, do you also believe that the works of Christ are as filthy rags? If not, where do you UPHOLD the Works of Christ in believers today? You keep going to the "Because of Jesus" theology which is a flawed understanding of God's Word.
Romans 2 is part of a larger narrative. Salvation has not been mentioned yet. The Holy Spirit has not been mentioned yet. Christ has not been mentioned yet. If you read the entire paragraph, Paul is addressing people who are self-righteous and believe they can be saved on their own merit.
In the end, all judgment is about our deeds. When you read on, verses 11 and 12 say that whether you are under the law or not - you will perish - and then you get to Romans 3 that proclaims that no one is righteous, and all are guilty. No one on their own can stand up to God's judgment.
So if you want to depend on those verses for your works method of salvation instead of Christ (which is the correct context since Christ is not mentioned) - good luck with that.
'Verily, verily, I say to you, he who is believing in me, the works that I do -- that one also shall do, and greater than these he shall do, because I go on to my Father;
We know that Peter once he spoke to Cornelius said this:
Act 10:34 And Peter having opened his mouth, said, `Of a truth, I perceive that God is no respecter of persons,
Act 10:35 but in every nation he who is fearing Him, and is working righteousness, is acceptable to Him;
You see Peter, said that those that are WORKING righteousness are the ones acceptable to Him and he is addressing this to Cornelius who he then accepts endorsing the fact that Cornelius indeed did works.
Yes, his love and faith were part and parcel with his works of ... love and faith. No loving faithful works, no real love or faith.
Look, the only thing I will point out is that these Fundamentalists will never find justification for their beliefs in the Gospels or in Acts of the Apostles. That's why for the poster who continually brings in Acts, it does nothing for them. I don't even think they are allowed to read it in their church because it is all about the Acts (Good Works) of the Apostles.
As for the reference of Paul Romans 3 and what have you. Each verse is an essay and has a theme. The fundamental and only question Paul confronts in Romans 3 is outlined in 3:1 "Then what advantage has the Jew?" Like all essays, the first line sets theme for the ensuing arguments.
This is what always gets to me about Fundamentalist. Paul wasn't writing to you. Paul wasn't writing for posterity. When he wrote this letter he makes it very clear he is writing to the Early Christians in Rome who are confused. They are confused because they have no relationship to Judaism. They heard about what happened in Judea after the fact and they are concerned that because they are not from the region can they be Christian as well. They are concerned that because they have no concept of Judaism can they be Christian as well. That's why so much of Paul 2 is about circumcision. There's more to it but it will all be lost to you because you keep reading it as if he was writing to you.
Look, the only thing I will point out is that these Fundamentalists will never find justification for their beliefs in the Gospels or in Acts of the Apostles. That's why for the poster who continually brings in Acts, it does nothing for them. I don't even think they are allowed to read it in their church because it is all about the Acts (Good Works) of the Apostles.
As for the reference of Paul Romans 3 and what have you. Each verse is an essay and has a theme. The fundamental and only question Paul confronts in Romans 3 is outlined in 3:1 "Then what advantage has the Jew?" Like all essays, the first line sets theme for the ensuing arguments.
This is what always gets to me about Fundamentalist. Paul wasn't writing to you. Paul wasn't writing for posterity. When he wrote this letter he makes it very clear he is writing to the Early Christians in Rome who are confused. They are confused because they have no relationship to Judaism. They heard about what happened in Judea after the fact and they are concerned that because they are not from the region can they be Christian as well. They are concerned that because they have no concept of Judaism can they be Christian as well. That's why so much of Paul 2 is about circumcision. There's more to it but it will all be lost to you because you keep reading it as if he was writing to you.
Just with regards to the audience - I understand that I am not the direct target audience - but the audience is the "church" - with which I am part of that body, so in principle it is directed towards me.
Your not distinguishing between the works of Christ and Our Works.
Peter said the following:
Act_10:35 But in every nation he that feareth him, and worketh righteousness, is accepted with him.
Obviously here we see that Peter says that Works are a requirement of being accepted of Him. These works - do you think they are referring to OUR works or His works done by Christ in believers?
Since we read that our works are a filthy rags, do you also believe that the works of Christ are as filthy rags? If not, where do you UPHOLD the Works of Christ in believers today? You keep going to the "Because of Jesus" theology which is a flawed understanding of God's Word.
I went over the work of Christ on the cross in post #82. I will post it again here.
Jesus was referring to His redemptive work in which He paid the penalty for the sins of the world in full. The work of Christ on the cross involved redemption (Gal. 3:13), unlimited atonement - Christ died for all (2 Cor. 5:14), Expiation (another word for atonement) which emphasizes the removal of guilt through a payment of the penalty (Col. 2:14), Propitiation [satisfaction] - Jesus' substitutional sacrifice satisfied the righteousness of the Father (Rom. 3:25).
Christ's work made possible the imputation of God's righteousness to those who believe in Him (Rom. 3:22; 1 Cor. 1:30; 2 Cor. 5:21; Phil. 3:9), justification for those who receive Christ as Savior (Rom. 4:1-5; Gal. 3:16), regeneration - because Jesus paid the penalty for the sins of the world, anyone who receives Christ as Savior is born again or regenerated (John 3:1-18).[/quote]
It is this work of Christ Jesus on the cross which made salvation possible. All anyone has to do to receive the free gift of eternal life is to accept or receive Christ as Savior which means to simply trust in His work on the cross in paying the penalty for our sins. He died spiritually on the cross which was the price that God the Father's righteousness demanded. He then died physically when His redemptive work was finished and then rose again in a body of incorruptabilty.
Acts 10:35 is not teaching that we need to do works to be saved. Peter was simply saying that God brings the gospel to everyone in every nation who wants to know about Him. Before one can be positive to the gospel one must have positive volition at the point of realizing that God exists. Cornelius had been a righteous man (humanly speaking) who feared God and prayed to God continuously (Acts 10:2). BUT HE WAS NOT SAVED. We know that Cornelus was not yet saved despite fearing God and praying to God because we are told in Acts 11:14 that he wasn't saved. He needed to hear the gospel about Jesus Christ and receive Christ as Savior in order to be saved. We are told in Acts 11:17 that after believing in Jesus Christ they (Cornelius and his household) received the gift of the Holy Spirit.
We are told in Acts 10:43 that everyone who believes in Christ receives forgiveness of sins. We are told in Acts 10:44 that Cornelius and his household received the Holy Spirit while listening to what Peter was telling them. They didn't do anything. They simply believed and were saved.
Last edited by Michael Way; 05-23-2014 at 09:15 PM..
I went over the work of Christ on the cross in post #82. I will post it again here.
Jesus was referring to His redemptive work in which He paid the penalty for the sins of the world in full. The work of Christ on the cross involved redemption (Gal. 3:13), unlimited atonement - Christ died for all (2 Cor. 5:14), Expiation (another word for atonement) which emphasizes the removal of guilt through a payment of the penalty (Col. 2:14), Propitiation [satisfaction] - Jesus' substitutional sacrifice satisfied the righteousness of the Father (Rom. 3:25).
Christ's work made possible the imputation of God's righteousness to those who believe in Him (Rom. 3:22; 1 Cor. 1:30; 2 Cor. 5:21; Phil. 3:9), justification for those who receive Christ as Savior (Rom. 4:1-5; Gal. 3:16), regeneration - because Jesus paid the penalty for the sins of the world, anyone who receives Christ as Savior is born again or regenerated (John 3:1-18).
Jesus never said His death on the cross paid the penalty for anyone.
He did say to follow Him and go into the world with the same words as He was sent to make disciples like Him.
He said; "By your words you'll be justified or by your words you'll be condemned."
"Anyone who is not willing to take up the cross and follow after me is not worthy of me."
"The man who loves me will keep my words."
"Anyone who rejects me and does not accept my words he already has his judge, namely, the words I have spoken, that is what condemns him on the last day."
"Abide in my love. You will abide in my love if you keep my commandments just as I have kept my Father's commandments and abide in His love."
"The Father commanded me what to say and how to speak and since I know His commandment is eternal life what I say is spoken just as He commanded me."
"What I have done that is what you must do. Once you know all these things blessed will you be if you put them into practice."
Blessed is he who hears the word of the Lord and keeps it. I know Him and I keep His word.
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