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Since Jesus said to follow Him a true believer must judge because Jesus did judge. He said He judged as He heard by doing the will of God. He also said how to judge in this way;
John 7:24 NKJV
New King James Version
Do not judge according to appearance, but judge with righteous judgment."
To judge with righteous judgment is to judge righteously and scripture says "the words of the Lord are upright". Righteous is upright. So to judge righteously is to spread the word of the Lord just as Jesus was sent to do.
I judge as I hear and my judgment is righteous because I am not seeking my own will but the will of the One who sent me.
I have to agree with loveMountains on this topic. You feel empowered to judge because of the verse you lifted from John 7 while ignoring the admonition in Matthew 7.
Quote:
Matthew 7:1-3
Judge not, that ye be not judged. For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again. And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye?
Now I ask you this: in John 7 Jesus gave the instruction to judge righteously...who were the people in that passage judging? They were judging Jesus himself. So you see, he was not giving instruction on how we should judge one another (refer to Matt 7:1-3 for that) but how we should judge Christ himself...whether to accept or reject him and his message.
I do hope you see this important distinction. Granted I have no greater understanding of the scripture than anyone else (less I'm sure) but that's how I see it.
There are different types of 'judging' -- Christians ARE DEFINITELY to 'judge' (discern) the difference between truth and error in all things, but, they are not to 'judge' (condemn) the hearts of others. Those who arbitrarily state that a Christian is not to ‘judge’ under any circumstance, are in error.
When that is said it always means not to judge others . . . we know we are to judge good from evil . . but we are to use the "mind of Christ" and the Spirit of agape love. By leaving off the last line of that verse you hide the fact that line 15 is referring to Christ. Christ is the only man who is Spirit and not judged by any man.
Quote:
1 Cor. 2:12-15 INKJV)-- 12 Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the Spirit who is from God, that we might know the things that have been freely given to us by God.
13Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.
14But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.
15But He that is spiritual (Christ) judgeth all things, yet He himself is judged of no man.
16For who hath known the mind of the Lord, that he may instruct him? but we have the mind of Christ.
There are different types of 'judging' -- Christians ARE DEFINITELY to 'judge' (discern) the difference between truth and error in all things, but, they are not to 'judge' (condemn) the hearts of others. Those who arbitrarily state that a Christian is not to ‘judge’ under any circumstance, are in error
I agree.
Unfortunately we seem to have quite a few folks here just salivating over the opportunity to judge, as in "condemn", others who do not interpret the Bible as literally as they do
When that is said it always means not to judge others . . . we know we are to judge good from evil . . but we are to use the "mind of Christ" and the Spirit of agape love. By leaving off the last line of that verse you hide the fact that line 15 is referring to Christ. Christ is the only man who is Spirit and not judged by any man.
What about 'judging' Biblically-identified 'sin' as 'sin', regardless of whose life it appears in? This is far different than the worldly notion that "loving me, means loving (or at least approving of) my sin."
Verse 15 clearly says, "15 But he who is spiritual judges all things, yet he himself is rightly judged by no one." This is NOT speaking of Christ, but, of believers who are called to 'judge' (discern) the difference between good and evil... just as you stated in your own post. As it says, believers themselves are subject only to God's judgment, NOT to human opinions of right/wrong or good/evil.
What about 'judging' whether Biblically-identified 'sin' is actually 'sin', regardless of whose life it appears in? This is far different than the worldly notion that "loving me, means loving my sin."
We ave the ultimate standard and the ultimate guide under the New covenant ushered in by Christ. Christ abides with us and God has "written in our hearts" with His Spirit of agape love. We can test any Biblically identified "sin" (missing the mark) by the Spirit of agape love and the mind of Christ (WWJT). If it is not compatible with agape love it is definitely a "sin." If it is compatible with agape love it cannot be a "sin." We take it to the Comforter to guide us to the truth in our hearts and we will have our answer. We DO know in our heart of hearts what is agape loving and what is not.
We ave the ultimate standard and the ultimate guide under the New covenant ushered in by Christ. Christ abides with us and God has "written in our hearts" with His Spirit of agape love. We can test any Biblically identified "sin" (missing the mark) by the Spirit of agape love and the mind of Christ (WWJT). If it is not compatible with agape love it is definitely a "sin." If it is compatible with agape love it cannot be a "sin." We take it to the Comforter to guide us to the truth in our hearts and we will have our answer. We DO know in our heart of hearts what is agape loving and what is not.
Do you suppose it is possible to get so bound-up in vague notions of 'agape love', that one is no longer able to "see the forest, for the trees'?
'Biblically identified sin' is "sin", regardless of how we feel about it! -- Further, whether we are operating in agape love or not, has nothing to do with whether the world's 'sin' (those operating/not operating in agape love) is 'sin' or not.
What about 'judging' Biblically-identified 'sin' as 'sin', regardless of whose life it appears in? This is far different than the worldly notion that "loving me, means loving (or at least approving of) my sin."
Hello jghorton.
Perhaps this is true, but what example does Jesus set for us when he recognizes sin in the lives of others? Does he condemn the sinful or enumerate to them their wrongdoings? Outside of the Pharisees and teachers and the money changers in the temple, I don't recall too many instances of Jesus lambasting someone for his or her sins...or even recounting them. Indeed, it seems to me that his approach is better exemplified in Matthew 9.
Quote:
Matthew 9:10-13 (NASB)
Then it happened that as Jesus was reclining at the table in the house, behold, many tax collectors and sinners came and were dining with Jesus and His disciples. When the Pharisees saw this, they said to His disciples, “Why is your Teacher eating with the tax collectors and sinners?” But when Jesus heard this, He said, “It is not those who are healthy who need a physician, but those who are sick. But go and learn what this means: ‘I desire compassion, and not sacrifice,’ for I did not come to call the righteous, but sinners.”
To be honest, I am baffled by believers who become confrontational with others because they are "sinners." Except in the specific instances I mentioned above, it does not seem to reflect the actions of Jesus.
Perhaps this is true, but what example does Jesus set for us when he recognizes sin in the lives of others? Does he condemn the sinful or enumerate to them their wrongdoings? Outside of the Pharisees and teachers and the money changers in the temple, I don't recall too many instances of Jesus lambasting someone for his or her sins...or even recounting them. Indeed, it seems to me that his approach is better exemplified in Matthew 9.
To be honest, I am baffled by believers who become confrontational with others because they are "sinners." Except in the specific instances I mentioned above, it does not seem to reflect the actions of Jesus.
Thanks.
I agree with your premise, but, the issue here is 'identifying sin as sin', not 'condemning sinners'.
If a Christian gets into the business of 'judging sinners', instead of 'judging/discerning sin', they have crossed the line into "God's business." However, sin does not exist in a vacuum, and Christians who avoid any reference to 'sin', whenever sinners are present, are "preaching to the choir."
In my observation, the world/sinners more often confront Christians when they 'dare' speak out against sin ... (from which the world/sinners are unwilling to separate themselves) -- than the other way around.
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