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No, they are not two peas in the same pod. Works, obedience, and commitment should result from having been saved through faith alone in Christ alone, but they are never the means by which one is eternally saved. I said nothing about purgatory. There is no such thing. However, in eternity there are degrees of blessing and rewards based on how faithful the believer is to God while here on earth.
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Originally Posted by zthatzmanz28
Moderator cut: Orphaned
I am not claiming that at all. At the judgment seat of Christ all believers will be rewarded based on their works as per 1 Cor. 3:12-15; 2 Cor. 5:10. And believers will have varying levels of rulership responsibility during the Millennial kingdom as well as throughout the eternal future. As Jesus stated, some will rule over ten cities, some will rule over five cities (Luke 19:17-19).
John exhorts his readers to be careful so that they may receive a full reward (2 John 1:8).
Yes, faith in Christ is what makes us eternally saved believers. Once having believed in Christ, in order to grow spiritually the believer must first of all have positive volition towards God's Word - Bible doctrine. He must have a desire to learn God's Word under the filling of the Holy Spirit. And he must apply God's Word to his life. This results in spiritual growth.
So actually, in keeping with your poll options, A well and educated study of the scriptures (under the filling of the Holy Spirit who is the true Mentor), and a constant and healthy prayer life leads to the wisdom and understanding to discern the things of God, and this leads to a deep and intimate love for God and for others.
I think you got them in reverse order. There are people who are very educated in scripture, but if the love of God is not in them, what good is it? On the other hand, an illiterate person with very little knowledge of scripture may be welcomed by God with open arms. Prayer and study are great, but don't be fooled into thinking that there is any action you can take which will make you saved.
I think you got them in reverse order. There are people who are very educated in scripture, but if the love of God is not in them, what good is it? On the other hand, an illiterate person with very little knowledge of scripture may be welcomed by God with open arms. Prayer and study are great, but don't be fooled into thinking that there is any action you can take which will make you saved.
I have clearly stated more than once that you cannot be saved by anything that you do. Eternal life is a free gift which is received by grace through faith in Christ Jesus, and not by works. The only issue in eternal salvation is trusting in Christ who died for your sins and rose again. How the believer lives his life after having been saved is irrelevant as far as his eternal security goes.
As for the believer's spiritual growth, that takes place when under the filling ministry of God the Holy Spirit the believer learns and applies the Word of God to his life. Obviously there are people who can have academic knowledge of Bible doctrine but who do not grow in grace. Even an unbeliever can have academic knowledge of Bible doctrine, but it doesn't do him any good. The believer's spiritual growth depends upon first of all being filled with the Holy Spirit (Eph. 5:18). The Christian way of life is a supernatural way of life and cannot be executed apart from the power of the Holy Spirit. When the believer is in fellowship, under the filling of the Holy Spirit which occurs when the believer has simply named his known sins as per 1 John 1:9, he is in a position to learn and then apply Bible doctrine which results in spiritual growth. As the believer grows spiritually his love for God increases.
I found it interesting, zthatzmanz, that you said the most vital thing for a Christian to have is "a deep and intimate love with God and for all others." I believe what you really meant is "for all others whose theology mirrors mine."
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Originally Posted by zthatzmanz28
Moderator cut: Orphaned.
Calm down. There's no reason to get worked up over a mere disagreement. I'm sure you have a good enough vocabulary that you don't have to resort to using words that the system software has to edit.
First off, Paradise isn't the same place as Heaven, in the first place. Jesus told the thief that He would be with him that day in Paradise. Three days later, He told Mary that He had not yet ascended to His Father in Heaven and that, for this reason, she was not to touch Him. Secondly, who said anything about "little cities and people to rule over"?
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I have never imagined to have heard such blasphemy from folks who think they believe in one GOD when they are now teaching that they will be "gods" of their own cities??
Yeah, well if you were to take the time to find out what we really believe instead of just coming up with your own theory of what we believe, you wouldn't be making groundless accusations.
All you have done so far is get upset over a personal difference of opinion. What do you believe the following passages tell us about the afterlife and what Heaven will be like:
Matthew 16:27
1 Corinthians 15:40-42
2 Corinthians 12:2
After you have done that, you might want to consider getting back to the topic we're supposed to be discussing: As a reminder, it's: "What do you think is the most vital thing for one to have as a Christian?" It's not: "Is Mormon doctrine of the afterlife blasphemous?"
I am not claiming that at all. At the judgment seat of Christ all believers will be rewarded based on their works as per 1 Cor. 3:12-15; 2 Cor. 5:10. And believers will have varying levels of rulership responsibility during the Millennial kingdom as well as throughout the eternal future. As Jesus stated, some will rule over ten cities, some will rule over five cities (Luke 19:17-19).
John exhorts his readers to be careful so that they may receive a full reward (2 John 1:8).
The teaching of eternal rewards is Scriptural.
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Originally Posted by zthatzmanz28
So, some will get to lord it over the rest? What need is there of RULES and LORDSHIP in Heaven?
This is straight from the writings of JOSEPH SMITH and the CELESTIAL KINGDOMS...
If there are RULES, then there must be SIN in heaven? Otherwise,
1. THE RULES CAN NEVER BE BROKEN
2. IF THE RULES CAN NEVER BE BROKEN WHY FOR GOD'S SAKE IS THERE LEVELS OF RULERSHIP? (admit it young MIKE, you just made this word up playing scrabble last night, didn't ya?)
3. IF RULES CAN BE BROKEN, THERE MUST BE SIN IN HEAVEN.
You either believe Jesus or you don't. The reality of rewards in the Millennial kingdom is clearly taught in the Scriptures. For example,
Rev. 2:26 The one who conquers and who keeps my works until the end, to him I will give authority over the nations, 27] and he will rule them with a rod of iron, as when earthen pots are broken in pieces, even as I myself have received authority from my Father.
That this extends into the eternal state is stated in Revelation 22:3-5.
Rev. 22:3 There will no longer be any curse; and the throne of God and of the Lamb will be in it, and His bond-servants will serve Him; 4] they will see His face, and His name will be on their foreheads. 5] And there will no longer be any night; and they will not have need of the light of a lamp nor the light of the sun, because the Lord God will illumine them; and they will reign forever and ever.
Again, Jesus stated by way of the parable of the Minas that some would rule over ten cities and some over five cities.
Luke 19:17 And he said to him, ‘Well done, good servant! Because you have been faithful in a very little, you shall have authority over ten cities.’ 18] "The second came, saying, 'Your mina, master, has made five minas.' 19] "And he said to him also, 'And you are to be over five cities.'
Jesus told the apostles that in the Millennial kingdom they would rule over the 12 tribes of Israel.
Matt. 19:28 And Jesus said to them, "Truly I say to you, that you who have followed Me, in the regeneration when the Son of Man will sit on His glorious throne, you also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.
And so, once again, you either believe Jesus or you don't.
Also, once again, I am 61 years old. Referring to me as 'young MIKE' in an attempt to talk down to me does not change what the Scriptures say.
Last edited by Michael Way; 04-22-2015 at 05:05 PM..
Once you have received Christ (been born again), all of the above.
And I would add fellowship with other believers.
Fellowship with all believers is essential. And all believers means "all believers," -- not just those with whom you agree on every point of doctrine, but all who accept Jesus Christ as their Lord and Savior.
What do you think is the most vital thing for one to have as a Christian?
Empathy.
This is also very important, imo. I do think if you have love for others then you will naturally have empathy for them.
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