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When we realize the price of our redemption, we should become humbled, and consider no one beyond salvation as long as they have the breath of life in them. And this goes for Christian brothers and sisters as well, who say, 'we are sinless.' Or some other phrase close to that nonsense.
Given the price that was put on my head, that Christ died for me, it is a humbling experience to live in G-d's presence. I would not put up any barriers for anyone to know Christ. Why would anyone want to limit their relationship to a loving G-d, to the exclusion of others? Isn't that jealousy? We have taken a 5-6 year old's perspective on G-d: 'G-d don't want to be with you, look at the sin you're wearing.'
The Pharasaic trash that passes for holiness today is shameful. 'Strain out a gnat and swallow a camel' - do you think that was really written for OT slaves? This contempt has made us religious Nazis on the one topic in America that is verboten in our culture altogether: sexuality. Reconsider people, you are putting up a stumbling block between G-d's love and the unsaved, you are creating a hurdle that wasn't there when Christ preached what our sacramental journey of faith should be, and let G-d soften your hearts. This is not about homosexuality, it becomes contempt for salvation of the unsaved.
There appears to be standards of behavior in the new testament as well.
Rev 21:8 But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.
This describes the sin. Do you really believe that sin will be resurrected?
All of the Rev 21:8 describes the sin, it is the sin that gets cast in not the man, anyhow, Revelation is symbolic and needs to read as such or else we must also expect a literal beast from the sea.
Romans 1 written to believers and about believers that mixed it up. (Taughtology)
We are not under any law but Grace, the two are not to be mixed (Taughtology)
Neither of those give us free license to sin.
Am I now free enough from the law to murder? No.
Love God-Love people.
If I love God, I'll live according to His instructions. The law is in my heart, need scripture? There is some but I don't have it 'at hand'. Sin is still sin.
If I love God, I'll live according to His instructions. The law is in my heart, need scripture? There is some but I don't have it 'at hand'. Sin is still sin.
You are using the fallacy of assumption. I never implied we are allowed to murder, most countries this is a punishable crime, not a sin in the sense of the bible.
Well here is a challenge. As we are not under the law (apart from the 10 and our countries law of which 2 emphasised by Jesus), please define sin for us all.
A definition, not a sin list as your sin list and mine may differ in your own words preferably.
Don't listen to seekerSA. Friend, it's a sin he needs to repent and stop this dangerous lifestyle period.
QUITE THE OPPOSITE, Listen to seekerSA. His or her post is excellent.
I listen to posts that look at a lot of viewpoints and mesh them together, not ones that are reactionary such as yours.
I'm Catholic, went to 16 years of Catholic school (8 + 4 H.S. + 4 college) and the New Testament message from all of my classes is one of love, compassion and forgiveness. There is nothing to say that a person who loves and believes in the Lord won't be saved. In fact, the message is that the bulk of those who believe in the Lord WILL be saved.
Now, turning to the field of pyschology and the classes I took as an undergraduate, the subject of homosexuality is addressed:
1) they talk about some people who can't help their situation through the way they were biologically put together. Have you ever walked up to a woman who is in a traditionally male occupation that you thought was a man (lack of curves, less than feminine facial features, awkward gait, deep voice)? It happened to me on Wednesday in the lobby of an office building where the security guard was just like I described. My thought: the biological and chemical formation of that person is not in the "middle of the pack" for the female gender. Have you ever seen a teenage boy walking around that you thought was a teenage girl, through no fault of his own. Again, they must have a tough road in terms of self-esteem when they see that they are not in the "middle of the pack" for the male gender. So, yes, there are sometimes biological and chemical bases for sexual orientation and, since human beings are created to have sexual urgings, the underlying mode of expression can be different. For a married couple, there could be definite leanings to which sexual position is preferred: male dominant, female dominant, rear vaginal entry, "spooning," and the like. But this is not where I'm going. Rather, the latter form of expression is not criticized because it is procreative and legitimate yet the former is criticized, despite its roots being biologically or chemically determined, and viewed as dysfunctional, and, by intolerant Christians, as sinful.
2) the second most likely cause is a childhood or adolescent TRAUMA...that the boy or girl did NOT ask for. They could have been sexually abused, they could have been raped, they could have been used and discarded, they could have been humiliated, there could have been "inappropriate" dynamics with one or both of the parents, or any combination of the above. It can then change their sexual "comfort zone" to one considered less than optimal. I know of a beautiful girl who was sexually abused in an incestual situation. She is attractive, educated and has never married. She has spent a lot of time and money in therapy and she has told me how it destroyed her earlier years, but that she plans on winning the battle. And, yes, she is a Christian and prays. I have a feeling that her sexual expressions may either be limited and/or modified because of the events that took place earlier in her life, but it's not my business to ask. I don't want to know.
Marks, you should remember that the Lord is OMNISCIENT and understands the factors and difficulties in people's lives and is thus compassionate, loving and forgiving. You should back off which "type" of sin on the "laundry list" will bring someone eternal damnation. I doubt if any of these "list" sins will bring such an ugly end for God-fearing individuals.
Thank you. Now let's bring on some deeply thought out rebuttals and comments if others feels so inclined.
This describes the sin. Do you really believe that sin will be resurrected?
All of the Rev 21:8 describes the sin, it is the sin that gets cast in not the man, anyhow, Revelation is symbolic and needs to read as such or else we must also expect a literal beast from the sea.
Blessings
Sin doesn't live without a host, and everyone will be rewarded according to their deeds, and judged by them. The verse I quoted is spoken as describing one's actions and deeds.
A magic prayer does not hide one's sins. If it did, then why repentance, and why are we to grow beyond repentance?
Sin doesn't live without a host, and everyone will be rewarded according to their deeds, and judged by them. The verse I quoted is spoken as describing one's actions and deeds.
A magic prayer does not hide one's sins. If it did, then why repentance, and why are we to grow beyond repentance?
godspeed,
freedom
Hi freedom
Obviously you and I share different perspectives. I can agree sin has a host in us but we were created with that ability and not because we inherit via DNA the original sin of Adam, yet the wages of sin is death not eternal torment and/or punishment.
As for your magic prayer, kinda goes against "If we confess our sins, He is faithful to forgive" (paraphrased) Furthermore "He who sins does not know the Father" kinda makes you wonder when a preacher of 30+ years is found out of homosexual and in fact pedophile acts so I guess we cannot take that literally eh?
See, the Father I know, does not look upon our sin as taughtology says. He is not a schizophrenic God. In fact when you discover who the Father really is, it is that fact, and not as we are taught (the blood of Jesus that takes away our sin) that strength is found to overcome sin.
Man creates the barrier of sin between us and God and not the other way round, it is our guilt that creates the separation, and it is that self same thing that invents laws keeping us in the flesh wallowing in our sin instead of simply saying sorry and entering into His Love.
If you open your eyes, God gave the 10, then the levites gave another 620, Jesus emphasized 2 (all Love) yet the church still focuses on some of the 630 or makes up their own.
See when you are sin focused, that forces a legal mindset and adherence to laws in the flesh.
Flesh and blood do not inherit the Kingdom thus resurrected as you suggest means that the spirit is also the host, see the error?
Now I by no means condone sin, I say it is no biggie as most make it out to be. Jesus said, "you judge after the flesh, I judge no one" We are supposed to be like Jesus right?
Ironic you can come "just as I am" yet after the fact, the just as I am, needs to conform to ............(enter creed/statement of faith/church law/POV here)
BTW, I am not a person that has any major hang-ups I am trying to justify, in fact, I would say I am less sinful than many yet I am not sinless.
When you read scripture with the bias of law, law is what (all) you will see.
See the Father I know, is far better than my earthly father was and secondly, the Father the church espouses, many earthly fathers are carnally better than that. An earthly father has the ability to love in spite of; yet the heavenly Father cannot?
Seems like unbelievers are better off as once they come to repentance it is tickets for them. The church reduces them to mindless, worthless people that can only see a perverted schizophrenic god that have to work their salvation and the church tries to make them a Mr or Mrs Dooright. We all fall short thus it is by Grace we are saved and nothing else. Yes faith w/o works is dead by the works are what Jesus taught, the simple love things, a cup of water, food for the hungry etc. Not pious oblation that the church teaches. You cannot add to your salvation, what more can you add to unconditional Love?
If you know the Father, that is what you must show them, not their sin.
Through the Law, we have the knowledge of sin so to remove the Law of God as something that was added by man is to remove our ability to understand what God considers sin.
That being said, the Law was never given for the purpose of giving us a sin list so we could be holy. If it were possible for a Law to be written to make us holy then righteousness would have come by the Law, but it did not.
The Law was given as our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ. It is supposed to remove self-righteousness. Every time we think we are righteous in our own selves, we find another Law that we fall short of. If we come to the place that we are able to fulfill that Law and start to feel self-righteous, we will find another Law that we fall short of. God's plan is that we eventually give up in frustration knowing we can never fulfill all of the Law so we turn to Christ as our Righteousness through faith.
I think that the direction that many take is an over reaction to the fundamentalist incessant habit of beating people to death with the Law. However, if we swing the pendulum so far that we remove the Law as a revealation of sin, we remove the schoolmaster and its purpose. If we as Christians deny that homosexual sex is sin, we remove those caught in this sin from ever getting free through their schoolmaster.
Having said all this, I would encourage the original poster to be clear with your brother that homosexual sex is sin and contrary to the Law of God and His will. At the same time, I would tell him that none of us can keep God's Law in our own strength and that Jesus came to fulfill the Law for us all. If he would trust the Lord as His righteousness, God will give Him the power to leave homosexuality behind as Christ lives His life through your brother. Holiness is our goal, but it is not in our power to attain. Christ in us is our only hope of glory.
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