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So, one getting p-s-ed off, picking up their ball and skulking from the playground because they can't get their own way, eh? Just as well. No gay person is shamed into becoming straight and another 'fundie' bites the dust. It's a win/win.
See ya . . .
No - it's just counterproductive... and a no-win situation... in that either a person is portrayed as taking their ball home and sulking - or that person is focused on the gay issue all the time.
If you need to make yourself feel better - go ahead. In reality, nothing has changed.
I don't know what you meant by the first sentence. My words were in response to Drob4JC's comment that some others on here do not thing same sex physical relations are in and of themselves sinful. I was clarifying that I agree with them.
God didn't say what you said he said. Paul said what you said God said..
I understand what you were clarifying about and I was saying that from previous posts Drob4JC is not advocating that same sex is not a sin nor not wrong, rather the approach taken by him is done in a gentler tone.
As far as those verses, "all scripture is God breathed" thus Paul didn't originate them.
#1 - Everybody is a biblical criminal at some point in their life - relatively speaking.
This is very true, but these are very complex circumstances and its just not that simple. Here we have something that in a non-idolatrous, non-promiscuous, non-rapy, and in a committed setting, is very loving between two people and strengthens their bond and happiness and the only possible violation of the greatest commandments has to do with what may or may not have been Gods "intention" for relationships...inspite of the fact he very likely knit them together in the womb this way based on our current understandings.
Asking 2% to 10% of the global population to only have sexless and romanceless relationships with the ones they love is like asking every baptist in america to do the same thing in their marriages...Assuming you're married, would you be willing to do such a thing with your wife if you thought some contextually debateable verses wanted you to?...Or would you accept the reality that those verses were written to a very different culture in the context of idolatry, try your best to build your relationship with God, and just risk it?...
I understand what you were clarifying about and I was saying that from previous posts Drob4JC is not advocating that same sex is not a sin nor not wrong, rather the approach taken by him is done in a gentler tone.
As far as those verses, "all scripture is God breathed" thus Paul didn't originate them.
This is very true, but these are very different circumstances. Here we have something that in a non-idolatrous, non-promiscuous, non-rapy, and in a committed setting, is very loving between two people and strengthens their bond and happiness and the only possible violation of the greatest commandments has to do with what may or may not have been Gods "intention" for relationships...inspite of the fact he very likely knit them together in the womb this way based on our current understandings.
Asking 2% to 10% of the global population to only have sexless and romanceless relationships with the ones they love is like asking every baptist in america to do the same thing in their marriages...Assuming you're married, would you be willing to do such a thing with your wife if you thought some contextually debateable verses wanted you to?...Or would you accept the reality that those verses were written to a very different culture in the context of idolatry, try your best to build your relationship with God, and just risk it?...
I am not directly asking or demanding anybody to do anything. I do not expect unbelievers to change their behavior on their own without Christ. I am calling it what it is - sin.
I've talk about this before here but since you brought up the 1 Corinthians 7:2, I'll address that as well. Neither of these verses are setting modern state endorsed and Church performed marriage as the only standard for sexual actions. The first verse is not a command or an ultimate standard, it is a suggestion by Paul...which isn't his only suggestion considering he also says its ok and even somethings preferred not to marry in other verses and he even says in . And again, they had a very different idea of keeping the marriage bed "pure" than we do today since the standards they would have been going by would be from the Old Testament and whatever Jesus said on the topic.
The Old testament allowed for concubinage, polygamy, and arguably even sexual relations with certain slaves and non-cultic prostitutes (Deuteronomy 23:17-18, Proverbs 6:26, etc.). Having only one wife (even though concubines were still allowed) was a newer more popular standard in the New Testament because the Romans did it and they didn't want the Hebrews they ruled over breeding too quickly. For further study, Here's a good link that gives an idea of how sexual immorality is would have likely been and perhaps should be defined biblically: www.godrules.net/articles.harlotry.htm
No thanks for the link. I'll listen to God's Word ... it is the standard.
As God, Jesus said it in the OT .... Genesis 2:24
No - it's just counterproductive... and a no-win situation... in that either a person is portrayed as taking their ball home and sulking - or that person is focused on the gay issue all the time.
If you need to make yourself feel better - go ahead. In reality, nothing has changed.
It remains shameful for anyone claiming to know God to specifically choose to believe the worst interpretations of Scripture. And they have to ignore the actions of Jesus in sticking up for all the disenfranchised people of His day---women, Samaritans, Gentiles, there is even a strong possibility that He healed a gay young man IF you study alternate translations by Greek experts.
Regardless, there is always an opportunity to win with love someone treated as an equal. But fundamentalism is interested in proclaiming authority not equality.
If you need to make yourself feel better--go ahead. In reality, nothing has changed. Your message remains godless, bigoted, and the exact image of the Pharisees from which it is derived.
From what you say, you have listened a lot to God's word ---without understanding even an inkling of His message of love and acceptance. You stick with the same LAW as those who murdered Christ.
I am not directly asking or demanding anybody to do anything. I do not expect unbelievers to change their behavior on their own without Christ. I am calling it what it is - sin.
First of all, you cannot just assume they are all unbelievers because many of them have been Christians their whole lives and actively persue a relationship with Jesus. If you think they are not genuine Christians because they are gay and occasionally 'act on it' with their partner, that should raise pharisiacal red flags even in your own mind given the less judgmental tone of you're responses. Secondly, my point is there are too many potentially loving aspects of this as well questionable roots of its initial condemnation and even a few strangely supportive aspects of how God created the world (evidence within nature, varying creativity of inbetween genders, and scientific studies) to questionably call this sin... Anyways, I'm out of time for evening. Talk at you later.
It remains shameful for anyone claiming to know God to specifically choose to believe the worst interpretations of Scripture. And they have to ignore the actions of Jesus in sticking up for all the disenfranchised people of His day---women, Samaritans, Gentiles, there is even a strong possibility that He healed a gay young man IF you study alternate translations by Greek experts.
Regardless, there is always an opportunity to win with love someone treated as an equal. But fundamentalism is interested in proclaiming authority not equality.
If you need to make yourself feel better--go ahead. In reality, nothing has changed. Your message remains godless, bigoted, and the exact image of the Pharisees from which it is derived.
Win with love... truth is also part of the equation.
Just note... I have never thrown you under bus regardless of how much you disagree because for some reason I think you are a believer - which means you are a family member, albeit a compromised family member. Yet - you continue to throw me under the bus. Love says to continue to be thrown under the bus from time to time - so that's what I am doing. Peace.
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