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I never said any such thing, you're twisting my words and trying to make them exclusive to gays to muddy the water and denigrate me. Don't.
But if the Lord can rebuke Peter for having a devil, what makes you think the rest of us, don't? What do you think Jesus meant when He said "the prince of this world cometh, BUT he hath nothing in me" (as opposed to the rest of mankind), or " because he knew what was in man" ?
What I AM telling you is what happened in the garden, and how the tabernacle structure is and how it reflects the pattern, and your own body reflects the pattern and all of creation reflects the pattern, and that we ALL, ALL, ALL, received the same thing, a serpent in the garden, and what we can and are supposed to do about it. It's the SAME SERPENT, it doesn't matter how it moves the flesh, it still moves the flesh, and it usurps the Holy Spirit's right to move the flesh. We're supposed to be HIS TEMPLE.
It's a pattern the creator of heaven and earth created and the pattern exists whether you or I or anyone else for that matter, believe it, or even agree with it. It is what it is. So you can either accept the pattern and use it for your benefit, or let the snakes overrun the garden, the planting of the Lord, that YOU ARE. The choice is yours.
And like snakes like to do when you don't cut their head off, it multiplied and by the time it got to the timeline in Revelation, it became a dragon and the dragon's time is just about up. Peace
I don't have the exact quote in front of me, but in another thread you were talking about praying with some guy, and seeing "the spirit of homosexuality" in him. So yeah, you did say that. And I'm telling you again that it is not a "spirit" of anything. It's an orientation. Period.
My stance is when a poster, ANY poster, refuses to even admit that what is in black and white IS in fact in black and white (which obviously has to be the first step in discussing it), that tells me they are not really interested in a discussion and are just looking to pick a fight to preserve to one of their favorite sacred cows, because men taught us to keep cattle from our youth.
So, you want the passage in black and white? Here it is in red ...actually I start at verse 18 in Romans 1.
18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;
19 Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.
20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:
21 Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.
22 Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,
23 And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things.
24 Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves:
25 Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.
26 For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature:
27 And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.
Does this text (used PERSISTENTLY by Christians to condemn homosexuality) not describe (though rather vaguely since we don't know the full story) 'those' who once knew God who had taken to worshiping pagan idols made to resemble mortal man, birds, animals and reptiles? Does this not describe idolatry? Moreover, does it not allude to the KIND of worship practices affiliated with idolatry? For those interested, Google 'pagan idolatry', 'shrine temple prostitution', the cult of Cybele, etc.
Romans is a letter written by the Apostle Paul addressed to the early church at Rome, predominantly Gentile, so it's obviously relating to PUBLIC exhibitions of worship within the church that is 'offensive' and NOT some casual "Adam and Steve" relationships which would not be worthy of report. This is not about homosexuality per se, nor heterosexuality per se, but rather sexual and other acts associated with an absolute no-no of God ...the worship of other gods! Remember "Thou shalt have no other gods before me, nor shall ye . . . . . .etc. etc". . . .? This and not so much the contents of the acts themselves is what is getting Paul so fired up! The description of the acts is just to emphasize what goes on in pagan idol worship.
The definition behind the part about "God giving them up to vile affections" is, apparently, pretty much up for grabs, probably known only to Paul and to the recipients of his letter. It may even be something that Paul simply threw in to emphasize the gravity of the 'sin of worshiping grave images rather than God'. Remember, WE are only reading Paul's response to issues that WE are not privvy to. It's rather like hearing only one half of a telephone conversation. We may get the general gist of the conversation but we can't know everything since we didn't hear the entire conversation. The same kind of thing is in play here.
Verse 27 appears to address (again while in the pagan idol worship mode) HETEROSEXUAL men (and maybe heterosexual women as in verse 26, no one is sure since 'sex', while surmised, is not actually addressed here) while the last part is ambiguous.
How can anyone seriously equate Romans 1:18-27 with homosexuality as we today define the term? I'm still waiting for responses from some of those on this thread who DO equate this passage of scripture with homosexuality but, so far, sigh, just the sound of crickets . . .
Addendum: Something that is overlooked by just about everyone is that Romans 1 is not addressed to we of today. This Epistle Is Not For Us Whatever We Might Make Of It! Moreover, when Paul wrote to the church at Rome he would have had NO IDEA that his letters would be later collated and included in a book that would be called The New Testament and read by us in the 21st Century!
Last edited by RomulusXXV; 03-15-2016 at 09:12 PM..
Reason: Addendum
I had my own, personal Come To Jesus moment during the AIDS crisis. I watched my gay friends demonized by "Christians" before they died of AIDS. I watched gay men be abandoned by their "Christian" families on their death beds. I saw evil I couldn't imagine up to then. I had no idea people would choose what they were told in church over their own sons. I made a promise to them and myself I wasn't going to sit idly by and watch good, decent people demonized because of someone's religious beliefs.
Stay strong. Since the 80's I've watched a sea change in attitudes towards the LGBTQ. I'm convinced in another generation we'll look back on anti-LGBTQ beliefs as we look back on racial segregation. With shame and embarrassment.
It hurts. It hurts to have people you trusted with all of you turn their backs on you. "It hurts" is an epic understatement, but I can't really put into words how much. But like I said before, you and others here give me hope and encouragement, and that does strengthen me. I know in my heart that love always wins, and we will win our freedom. Even in the face of so much resistance I know that love always wins. You and others show me that.
No human deserves to these events in their lives. Let alone when they are agitated by a third party.
Knowing this continues (to any degree to anyone for any hateful reasons) causes me to question my civility and makes me realize I am much more like Peter than I will ever be like Christ.
Mercy, Justice and Compassion---why is this so elusive?
I've been feeling this way a lot lately. I'm struggling and restraining myself so much it wears me out, so I can continue to show grace and compassion. But I feel myself slipping.
Aggressive, no. Microaggressive, yes. You flat out refuse to see my story, my life's journey for what it is.
I am desperately trying not to offend you, but you are as dense as a London fog. I just told you straight up that God DID change me. He DID transform me. AFTER I CAME OUT!!!!! My God in Heaven. It's like I'm talking to a brick freaking wall. STOP LOOKING AT THE BIBLE LONG ENOUGH TO LOOK AT ME!!!!!!!!!
There is nothing whatsoever sinful about being gay, lesbian, bisexual or transgender. Nothing. My life. What God has been doing in my life since I came out is a living testimony to that. Look at me. Stop looking at the Bible long enough to look at me. There is nothing sinful about me being a transsexual, or seeking loving commitment with another woman. At all. If that's what God has for me.
"Oh wow, that is really horrible and wrong what your family did to you" would have gone a long way toward proving to me that you have nothing against LGBT people, or our relationships. But you didn't say that.
I did say same as that; in another post I said that NO ONE should reject you for that. I also said that it's all sin to G-d, whatever it is. I had another friend I didn't mention, whose family did just that. He got AIDS at the beginning of the epidemic and they sent him to a trailer in Florida to die alone. I didn't know about it until he died; I found out from a friend of his mother's. It broke my heart.
But other sins, that's not what this thread is about is it? And yet, when I give a perspective on it you or your friends don't want to hear, I'm being microaggressive, a bigot, and on and on. I'm not even focusing on it as much as you are. I'm just giving you the keys to the kingdom, and telling you to do with them what you will. Peace
Rbbi1, I'm gonna have to ask you to slow down a little with the homeruns. I have to spread love around before I can get back to another one from you. Three thumbs up!.....you too CM! Great stuff!
I find it ironically funny, that those who make such claims about love this, love that, love wins, all love, all the time, no judgment, no hell, no intolerance, just unicorns and butterflies, are also the most intolerant, most rude, most infantile and selfish 'believers' who claim to follow Christ. If in fact you are saved, your rhetoric and attitude is a poor witness. Please.
You can mock love all you want, electron, but know that you are mocking God when you do...who IS love.
geekigurl, your story will send ripples that may cause a crack in a fundamentalist's heart - perhaps big enough to allow a ray of compassionate light to enter.
I did say same as that; in another post I said that NO ONE should reject you for that. I also said that it's all sin to G-d, whatever it is. I had another friend I didn't mention, whose family did just that. He got AIDS at the beginning of the epidemic and they sent him to a trailer in Florida to die alone. I didn't know about it until he died; I found out from a friend of his mother's. It broke my heart.
But other sins, that's not what this thread is about is it? And yet, when I give a perspective on it you or your friends don't want to hear, I'm being microaggressive, a bigot, and on and on. I'm not even focusing on it as much as you are. I'm just giving you the keys to the kingdom, and telling you to do with what you will. Peace
I already have them. Christ gave them to me when I gave him my heart, and my life. Thanks though.
I don't have the exact quote in front of me, but in another thread you were talking about praying with some guy, and seeing "the spirit of homosexuality" in him. So yeah, you did say that. And I'm telling you again that it is not a "spirit" of anything. It's an orientation. Period.
Yes, that spirit wrapped itself around my midsection and constricted, just as it had been manifesting itself to him, which there is no way apart from the Spirit of G-d, I could have known. I'd never even met the guy (my boss's boyfriend).
And I'm sorry, but the truth is, it's root is a spirit, just like hate, rebellion, stubbornness are all spirits, but their fruit is murder, witchcraft, and idolatry. I spent the first 3 years of my walk almost exclusively being used of Him to deliver people from all manner of them. ANYTHING that is not like Christ's Spirit, IS another spirit, period.
You might not think that a spirit could make a person slither on the floor and their body move as if it had no bones, either, but I've seen it. Also saw two little girls levitate off the ground about a foot. All these things are spirits and they all have one agenda and one agenda only, the same as their master, to kill, steal and destroy and like it or not, according to the pattern He established, they are in all of us to one degree or another, even the Christians.
He didn't say, speaking to Christian believers, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling for nothing. That word used there means "deliverance". He separates the light from the darkness, even today. As He said, He would do cures and cast out devils, today (first 1000) and tomorrow (second 1000) and the third day He would be perfected. We must decrease so He can increase, and this is how we decrease.
And I said nothing about him or anyone like him being "demon possessed". That's entirely different.
Peace
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