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Sure. If God thinks the snake will be of more benefit.
God gives a guy, we'll call him Pete, who wanted an egg, a snake. Pete says, "Lord! I asked for an egg and you give me a snake? I had faith in you! What the heck?" God is silent. Pete puts the snake in a box while he ponders God giving him something besides what he asked for. Pete goes to bed with less faith then he had when he asked for the egg. Why didn't God provide for him? Why didn't God give him what he asked for?
The next morning he looks in the box and sees the snake has laid eggs. "Now what?" he thinks. "What am I going to do?" He thinks about it a while and he says to himself, "There's a reason God gave me a snake."
The eggs hatched and Pete had a lot of snakes. And those snakes produced more eggs which led to more snakes. Pete realized God not only gave him an egg...he gave him a LOT of eggs. Pete eventually turned one snake into a successful roadside attraction which made him all sorts of money, snakes being low maintenance, and for the rest of his life Pete, now known as Pete the Snake Guy, praised God for giving him a snake, not an egg. The end.
Cute story, but the request was for FOOD to eat, not an unclean creature to eat. That was the point.
Oh for goodness sake. Pete the Snake Guy, the hero of today's parable, didn't eat his livelihood. That would put him in bankruptcy court.
Come to think of it....I've had rattlesnake. It's quite tasty breaded and fried and washed down with a nice chardonnay.
Since the creatures represent part of the carnal beastly soulish natures that Adam gave them and that we are to either overcome or become one with, quite literally, you are what you eat. Something to muse over with your chardonnay.
Do you recognize that the Corinthian church was highly dysfunctional? That they were doing a lot wrong? That Paul chastized them for their errors?
Yes. God gave them tongues. Now show me where that is guaranteed to be given to all believers subsequently.
No. They weren't believers. They had repented-- and been baptized by John the Baptist, but they were not Christians.
So EVERY instance of someone coming to Christ in Acts has someone speaking in tongues? You going to go there?
How about after that? It's strange, but the next generation of Christians, the Church Fathers, don't say much about tongues. They just didn't happen.
Even today, I've never heard an example of tongues that was legit. All I ever hear is some silly ba-ba-ba-ba-ba-ba-ba nonsense.
What language does God have you speak?
1) Do you realize that Paul was explaining the gifts of the Spirit to all new believers? I already showed you where it was said that the gift was for ALL, as many as the Lord our G-d should call. The question you should be asking is what it is it in you that wants to resist the Holy Ghost?
2) Already did. Twice.
3) It says they were disciples, and they were asked if they had received since they believed. Pretty plain that they were Christians who had not been told of the HG since THAT is what they received, and you can't receive it until you have received Christ into your heart. One precedes the other, obviously, so there is no question that they were believers in Christ. Without Him in residence first, you can't receive the HG. One is as a well, the other is as a river flowing (living/moving water) out of a rock that has been smitten.
4) And after that the church died out, didn't it? Why, because they had skipped part 2 of the Tabernacle pattern and tried to wing it with just the inner anointing in Christ, bypassing the power needed and the access to spiritual wisdom that goes with the baptism in the HG. And so they tried to lead the body themselves and the flesh profits NOTHING, as 40,000 plus denominations have proven.
5) How would you know if it was legit or not, since without the HG you can't have the gift of discerning of spirits? Peace
6) A heavenly one that the enemy of our soul does not understand, nor does the carnal mind of man understand it, because it is our spirit praying to our Father, who is SPIRIT. A good earthly father would not sire a child and then never speak to it, and man is not more righteous than G-d.
Since the creatures represent part of the carnal beastly soulish natures that Adam gave them and that we are to either overcome or become one with, quite literally, you are what you eat.
According to your beliefs. I am not bound by your beliefs.
Mine tell me I'm free from all that. Free to enjoy a bit of snake in touristy cowboy bars without worry. Yee-haw!
Do you recognize that the Corinthian church was highly dysfunctional? That they were doing a lot wrong? That Paul chastized them for their errors?
Yes. God gave them tongues. Now show me where that is guaranteed to be given to all believers subsequently.
No. They weren't believers. They had repented-- and been baptized by John the Baptist, but they were not Christians.
So EVERY instance of someone coming to Christ in Acts has someone speaking in tongues? You going to go there?
How about after that? It's strange, but the next generation of Christians, the Church Fathers, don't say much about tongues. They just didn't happen.
Even today, I've never heard an example of tongues that was legit. All I ever hear is some silly ba-ba-ba-ba-ba-ba-ba nonsense.
What language does God have you speak?
1) You do realize that Paul was explaining the gifts of the Spirit to all new Christians, don't you?
2) Already did. Twice. Plus explained it from covenant perspective and Tabernacle witness, and pointed out it's in 3 books, minimum. How many witnesses do you require?
3) Yes they were believers and they were Christians. That is easily proven by one fact. You can't have the baptism in the HG unless you have first received Christ, just as you can't go through the inner court without first going through the outer court. One is as a well, the other is as a rock smitten to release rivers of living/moving water. The question you should be asking yourself is what in you is resisting the HG?
4) The so-called church fathers skipped part 2 also, which is why the church died out, and we have 40,000 plus denoms today. The flesh profits NOTHING, and they proved it.
5) How would you know if it was legit, seeing how you can't have the gift of discerning of spirits without the baptism in the HG which releases the gifts to operate through the believer?
6) I speak a heavenly language that neither the enemy of my soul or the carnal minds of men can interpret. A righteous man would never sire a son and then never speak to that child, and G-d is more righteous than men. So He made a fail proof way for us to communicate, spirit to spirit, because our Father IS a Spirit. Peace
According to your beliefs. I am not bound by your beliefs.
Mine tell me I'm free from all that. Free to enjoy a bit of snake in touristy cowboy bars without worry. Yee-haw!
Well here's the rub. He established things the way He wants them, and just as His Spirit put in place the sun, moon and stars and they follow established laws He set up, so too did He establish principles and laws that cannot be circumvented by the whims or beliefs of man. So you go on thinking you're free from all that, the enemy of our souls loves a good deception and those that fall into it, even better. That's why he gets to eat dust (guess where he finds it at). Peace
Rbbi1, your post (#52) is far too long to address in its entirety. I did, however, read and take in the contents and I do thank you for taking the time to respond to my previous post.
You say that 'it' was foretold in Joel 2. What is 'it'? And, where are 'tongues' mentioned in Joel 2?
I have no idea why you feel that Jesus having been baptized by John the Baptist "because it was necessary for ALL righteousness" implies anything about a future 20th Century phenomenon that would come to be known as 'speaking in tongues'.
You reference the 'tongues of fire' in the Book of Acts and you somehow associate this event with the modern-day version of 'tongue-speaking'. The so-called 'angel speak' affiliated with the Pentecostal Church has nothing to do with ANY of the examples of ‘tongues’ as found in the Book of Acts. These were KNOWN languages recognized by the particular nationals associated with those languages.
What you are doing. Rbbi1, is attempting to use scripture to validate your claim that you ‘speak in tongues’. And you’re bending over backwards in your attempts to do this. The truth is ...there is NO scripture with which to validate such a claim. ALL references to 'tongues' in the Pauline scriptures that deal with the subject (ONLY the Book of Corinthians, you will note!) pertain to KNOWN languages. There is no such thing as "angel speak" reported in the Bible! When Paul mentions ‘the tongues of angels’ (just ONE time!) he’s using hyperbole to make a point to his Corinthian audience. There is no such thing as a 'prayer language' reported in the Bible! Moreover, in ALL cases in scripture where angels were reported to have spoken to humans they did so in the language of the hearer! In other words, the hearer was not especially gifted with the ability to either speak in OR to interpret 'angel speak'!
There is much hype and emotional behavior involved within Pentecostal circles. These things can be prompted in humans through stimuli designed to serve such a charismatic purpose. This purpose is in the banners that are often displayed in front of their churches: "This Church Is Where Miracles Happen!"Are YOU ready for a miracle? Well, come inside and we'll show you miracles aplenty! Loud, upbeat music can incite the individual to a point of ecstatic giddiness. "Tongues" (a supposed example of an infilling of the Holy Spirit as expected by the Church as well as by its members!) can occur while one is in such a state, especially if one has been coached previously by other members. Yes, 'tongues' can be practiced and one can be trained to 'babble' when so prompted. They might even BELIEVE that these utterances are from the Holy Spirit. A church that believes that 'tongues' are a prerequisite for 'evidence of an infilling of the Holy Spirit' is a church that will be filled WITH 'tongue-speakers' and those attempting to do so! Everyone desires to impress one another with this alleged 'spiritual gift'!
Question: How many NON-Pentecostal churches are there whose members 'speak in tongues'? Where else but in the Book of Corinthians are 'tongues' even mentioned? Why not if they are so important? Could this not just have been an example of unruly behavior in the Church of Corinth involving many foreign languages all being spoken at the same time? Isn't Paul expending a lot of his energy admonishing these people?
Back to the Pentecostal Church. On the one hand we have exciting upbeat music especially designed to encourage 'tongues'. On the other hand, songs such as, There’s Room At The Cross, sung beautifully by an angelic sounding choir can elicit emotions that cause tears to stream down one's cheeks. Human beings can fall prey to many emotions when in a religious environment that is specifically designed to accomplish such things. I have personally seen people virtually crushed and emotionally overwhelmed by this 'play' on their emotional state. Many churches do this, of course, but the Pentecostals do it with a particular flair!
'Tongues', slaying in the Spirit, so-called 'Spirit induced' laughter and other such charismatic displays can be rather disturbing to the 'rational' person. Much of it, if not all of it, can be explained by psychology because none if it is a 'supernatural induced' experience but rather a ‘human’ one. While not meaning to be crass, ecstatic uttering in uncontrolled gibberish and other such charismatic phenomenon might be likened to a sexual 'experience', certainly a sensual experience. I wanted to avoid the term 'orgasm' but it's possibly something similar.
Rational people who just know that 'something ain't right here' are considered by the ‘spirit-filled’ crowd as those who have not received the Holy Spirit and are therefore ‘lesser’ Christians. In fact, there ARE Pentecostals who believe that UNLESS professed Christians ‘speak in tongues’ they are lost. Jimmy Swaggart was - or is - one such person.
Presumably you have a bible, so why don't you read Joel 2 for yourself? As for there being no scripture to validate this, again, you'd have to take Joel, Acts, and Corinthians out of the bible, plus some other books, including Genesis. Also, again, if you've never experienced it for yourself, you have neither part nor place in a discussion about something you know nothing about, as I pointed out to you with the plumber/surgeon analogy. I provided ample scripture, not just my opinion.
Opinions mean didly squat in comparison to experiences fulfilled by the Spirit of G-d. I don't care if you don't believe me, that's fine, you don't have to take anyone's word for anything; go to Him (if you have had the initial salvation experience to begin with) and ask Him to baptize you in His Spirit with a RIGHT MOTIVE, and since He is the baptizer, He will accommodate you. It's the Spirit's job to perform the Word, and since that's in the Word, He performs it. It's as simple as that.
And I don't care what Jimmy Swaggart thinks, either, nor do I agree with his take on that. I'm the one who spent 2 years alone with Him and a bible after my conversion experience, precisely because I didn't want man's interference or errors with what began as a spiritual experience, and asked His Spirit to teach me, which we are also promised He will do, and He does.
Actually, when He started, I had 5 legal pads full of just His teaching on this (the fullness) and deliverance, the first two topics He chose to instruct me on, no doubt in part, because like the Corinthians I had obtained something and I had no idea how "it" operated through a believer, AND G-d knows I needed deliverance. I had no idea there were such people out there, experiencing what I was, until AFTER I had received it.
ANYTHING I share came from EXPERIENCING Him and His Spirit. Whether or not it lines up with others, as far as I'm concerned, is by divine "accident", not by design on my part or because I "belong" to one group or another (because I don't), and is a witness to me, not something for me to follow.
I chose to ignore other parts of your post, because it's really just more opinions and guesswork. The Spirit is NOT an emotion, btw, so emotions have nothing to do with it. Peace
Last edited by Rbbi1; 07-04-2016 at 10:45 AM..
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