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Amen brother, we need Christs image to be formed in us through the Holy Spirit more and more, we need to be sanctified day by day. Which is the most important and lasting continual Spiritual experience after rebirth. It's so sad many people fight against that which can save and cleanse them, against Christs mercy and forgiveness, and rather hang on to their self-preserving pride and rebellion.. only if we submit to Jesus Christ that will be the true happiness and eternal life!
Are you affirming what I alluded to above in my response to Rbbi1's post? That is, that one MUST 'speak in (angelic) tongues' in order to demonstrate an infilling of the Holy Spirit which is a necessity to attain salvation? That those who don't demonstrate an infilling of the Holy Spirit by 'speaking in (angelic) tongues' are not saved? Is that what you're saying? If not, then what ARE you saying with regard to this particular topic?
You can figure out from my posts that I'm not repentant of a specific ‘sin’? Which ‘sin’ do you get from my posts that I need to repent of? Is it 'the sin' of not condemning LGBT people?
Hmmm, not a good analogy, Rbbi1. A fake $20 bill can pass as a $20 bill to the untrained eye because it’s a replica of the original. It looks the same. But not to the trained eye. The trained eye can spot a counterfeit pretty quickly. One cannot, however, fake speaking in, say, Swahili to someone who is already familiar with Swahili. It’s either Swahili or it’s not Swahili. Known languages cannot be faked. So called “angel speak” has no original with which to compare it with - or even that it exists at all - so it cannot be verified as being real or fake. So we therefore must logically err on the side of fake because that is invariably what it is!
By the way, I AM telling the absolute truth regarding my former friends. They're 'former' because we all moved on over the years and pursued other interests. They still live in town as i do and are, as far as I know, still church-goers. This is not to mention, of course, that there are many, many former 'tongue speakers' who left this 'fakery' behind.
This has no scriptural support. There is no such thing as a 'prayer language'. This is all Charismatic nonsense, just the same as their ‘slaying in the spirit’, rolling around the floor laughing hysterically, howling like wolves, cackling like geese, etc. etc. to somehow 'prove' that they have 'an infilling of the Holy Spirit'. It’s nothing more than a circus.
Whatever you said above has no scriptural foundation. This is all man-made “I’m holier than thou because "I" have an infilling of the Holy Spirit and "you" don’t …na, na, na, na, na na!” stuff.
There's nothing hilarious about my take on this subject. From yours, to be sure. There is no such thing as an ‘unknown’ language on Planet Earth. Every language on earth is known by someone who speaks that language. There is no such thing (nothing from the Bible anyway) that suggests that human beings can converse in ‘angel speak’. In fact, if we’re going to use the Bible as our source for facts then let us listen to Paul when he says that he was caught up into paradise, i.e. heaven, and heard unspeakable words (angel speak?), which it is not lawful for a man to utter (2 Corinthians 12:4).
One’s jabbering away in giddy childish babble and implying to others that if they can’t do the same it proves that they have no infilling of the Holy Spirit (and therefore not saved!) IS narcissistic as well as a lie. i.e. an abomination.
Whatever ...the Bible facts are that the term 'tongues' as used in scripture refer to KNOWN languages and nothing other. The people of Paul's day who he was admonishing in the Church of Corinth were the charismatic Christians of our day. The city of Corinth and the many foreign languages being spoken are the key to understanding these particular 'localized' scriptures. As mentioned previously, there is no mention of 'tongues' (angelic or otherwise) in any of the other Pauline books. Think "Corinthian", study the context, the time, the place, the diverse people and put two and two together!
Are you saying that you pray in an angelic language? Is this what you're getting at without actually having told us this as yet? If you do claim to do so then i would have to ask, do you know what you're saying when you pray in this alleged 'language'? If you don't, then why in God's name would the Holy Spirit (through you) be praying to himself since he is the only one who can understand? This is not to mention, of course, that it's the height of ludicrity (if that wasn't a word previously, it is now) for one to be praying in a 'language' that one does not know when it would be far more logical for one to be praying in a language that they DO know! Assuming that your native 'tongue' is English, have you simply tried praying in 'English tongues'?
First of all, you're ignoring the fact that it was foretold in Joel 2.
Second, you're ignoring the fact that Yeshua Himself told John the Baptist when John said he needed to be baptized of HIM, to go ahead and baptize Him in water because it was necessary for ALL righteousness.
Third, you're ignoring that Yeshua said He would baptize with fire, and that He told the 120 to stay in Jerusalem until they were endued with POWER THAT CAME FROM ON HIGH. And they were, on the day of Pentecost, fulfilling all that He said. Tongues (flames) of fire came on their heads from heaven and they spoke as the Spirit gave them utterance, as He lit his candles, the soul is the candle of the Lord.
As I recounted, I have seen the tongue of fire myself, and yes, I speak as the Spirit gives me utterance, also. And yes, I pray in English but not so much as in the Spirit, because as it says plainly, we know not what we shall pray for, but the SPIRIT does. The difference in prayer is obvious. People without it pray to speak; people with it pray to hear (what the Spirit speaks). My prayer from the beginning is that He keep me in His perfect will; not the acceptable or the good. It would be impossible if I were not baptized in His Spirit with His Spirit in position to lead, not my flesh.
If you look at Mark, you will find that the disciples came upon some believers that had not been baptized with the Holy Ghost, but only had the ministration of the Holy Spirit infilling and the disciples baptized them. It says plainly, there is a difference. Same Spirit, different manifestations thereof. One is having His Spirit in you, the other is having His Spirit cover you, as in a baptism. As Yeshua told John the Baptist, BOTH are required to fulfill ALL righteousness.
And as Yeshua said, if your righteousness does not exceed that of the Pharisees (who believed in water cleansing), you will in no wise enter into the kingdom. Like the Pharisees, your stand is to not enter in yourself and to keep others from entering in also, which attitude Yeshua condemned. I don't know where you get the idea there is no prayer language, when Paul said he spoke in tongues more than all the rest of them, and said to forbid not to speak in tongues. That's pretty plain, I'd say.
And as for your point about things being said that were not lawful for a man to utter, they are not lawful for flesh to utter, but the Spirit can and does. Man cannot speak out from a place he has never been before, but Paul said our conversation is from heaven and we speak with the tongues of angels, which is what happens when our Spirit is released (rivers of living water) to pray through us. He said He had a baptism to be baptized with and how He is constrained (bound in us) until it be accomplished. He is literally bound in a believer, unable to do any works, without the baptism of the HG.
The HG is the power of G-d, which is why the HG it is said, does the works. The works are outlined as the spiritual gifts, ie. the things that the Spirit does through the believer, which is outlined in Corinthians. There are 9 gifts and there are 9 parts of 3 decorations on the golden candlestick, which is not a coincidence. The candlestick is representative also of Him and His body. It has 3 arms on each side coming out from a central shaft, called the servant candle. The true son is a servant, and we are meant to be servants as well, ministering in the inner court as priests.
The 3 arms are His, the husband's and the wife's, ie. wherever two of you are gathered in my name/nature there I AM in the midst of you, and through the candle being lit, His works (arms speak of works) become our works, which is why the 9 gifts are represented in the arms of the candlestick. And also; we read that these things follow them that believe, that shall speak with new tongues, they shall pick up snakes, and if they shall drink any deadly thing it shall not hurt them. All of those thing listed, are SPIRITUAL. There is much to learn from the pattern, but men in their rebellion refuse to be taught of the Spirit.
The pattern of the Tabernacle clearly shows our spiritual walk, as we are to walk through each section, experiencing each article of furniture as the flesh is dealt with. There were 3 sections to it, which lines up with the 3 main feasts that all males 20 and above were commanded to attend yearly. You cannot skip the inner court in your walk to the most Holy, and you cannot skip the feast of Pentecost that it represents. There are no shortcuts.
By the way, I have been slain in the Spirit, which I recounted in my explanation of when I saw and received the tongues of fire myself. No man touched me, and at the time, I had NO IDEA what had happened to me except that the Spirit of G-d had done it; the scriptures later revealed it to me. I have been slain many times in my walk. Those that have, recognize that you can sense the Spirit come at your forehead. There's a reason for this; the carnal mind is His enemy and no enemy can stand in His presence. He is simply taking His enemy down, so He can do a spiritual work in you unhindered by His enemy.
For any curious reading....as for what it feels like when you are slain, you become completely unaware of your flesh body and you don't even feel it when you hit the floor. If you try to fall backwards on your own, your natural reaction is for your behind to go first to break your fall. Not so, when slain in the Spirit; you fall straight as a poker. There is an overwhelming sense of peace like you have never experienced before, because true peace is when the flesh is no longer warring against the Spirit, and as long as the carnal mind is in control of the body, the war still rages. But not so when the Spirit has taken down the enemy.
As for the laughing, the joy of the Lord is what the laughing is from; again, it's the Spirit in you releasing joy. As with any gift or manifestation, there are mimicking opportunities which the flesh loves to do. But the Spirit of the believer will witness what is of Him and what is the flesh seeking an opportunity to be displayed. You don't throw out the baby with the bathwater.
Essentially, you're standing outside the entrance of the inner court, refusing to enter in. And that's your choice, and you can do that, but the loss is yours and will be evident to you when He returns and your garment (soul) is still spotted with the flesh. Peace
Please help me understand in simple English language.
It's describing the phenomenon of Acts 2 where they all spoke in other languages. That's it. God used that to reach people for the Gospel. If you claim you're doing the miracle, there MUST be someone to interpret what you said, or it's not to be done.
Nonsense. Paul said he spoke in tongues more than the rest of them, and he said not to forbid to speak in tongues. Not everyone gets all the gifts of the Spirit, so not everyone gets used to interpret tongues that are for the body. But EVERYONE who is baptized in His Spirit speaks in tongues, for one reason, because that is the proof that He is risen, IN YOU.
The Holy Ghost and the Word are one, and we are told to build up our MOST HOLY FAITH by praying in the Holy Ghost, because in so doing, we are literally hearing the Word that is Spirit and faith comes from hearing the Word! Peace
Nonsense. Paul said he spoke in tongues more than the rest of them, and he said not to forbid to speak in tongues.
And there is no indication that the gift continued on to today.
Quote:
Not everyone gets all the gifts of the Spirit, so not everyone gets used to interpret tongues that are for the body. But EVERYONE who is baptized in His Spirit speaks in tongues, for one reason, because that is the proof that He is risen, IN YOU.
Scripture does not support that claim.
Quote:
The Holy Ghost and the Word are one, and we are told to build up our MOST HOLY FAITH by praying in the Holy Ghost, because in so doing, we are literally hearing the Word that is Spirit and faith comes from hearing the Word! Peace
No. They aren't. The Father, Son, and the Holy Spirit are 3 persons. And no -- we are not told to babble in the Spirit.
And there is no indication that the gift continued on to today.
Scripture does not support that claim.
No. They aren't. The Father, Son, and the Holy Spirit are 3 persons. And no -- we are not told to babble in the Spirit.
The gift we were told, was for ALL that are called, even those that are afar off. Are you called? Called is outer court realm, the realm of babes. As many as He calls He justifies (sanctifies/inner court realm) and those He sanctifies (if they follow on to know the Lord) He glorifies (Holy of Holies realm).
Yes we they are, and yes we are. It's your choice but don't teach disobedience to others or you will receive more stripes. Better to remain silent than reap more. Peace
The gift we were told, was for ALL that are called, even those that are afar off. Are you called? Called is outer court realm, the realm of babes. As many as He calls He justifies (sanctifies/inner court realm) and those He sanctifies (if they follow on to know the Lord) He glorifies (Holy of Holies realm).
Yes we they are, and yes we are. It's your choice but don't teach disobedience to others or you will receive more stripes. Better to remain silent than reap more. Peace
Acts 2:38Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost. 39For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.
Again; are you called? Note that you're first baptized in water for the remission of sins, THEN you shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost, which is a spiritual baptism, the baptism of fire He spoke of. Peace
Acts 2:38Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost. 39For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.
Again; are you called? Peace
I teach that. Everyone that receives Christ gets the Holy Spirit. What's your point?
Now demonstrate where EVERYONE that receives the Holy Spirit speaks in tongues.
I teach that. Everyone that receives Christ gets the Holy Spirit. What's your point?
Now demonstrate where EVERYONE that receives the Holy Spirit speaks in tongues.
Joel prophesied it, Acts fulfilled and demonstrated it, Corinthians explains the gifts of the Spirit received from the baptism to believers, meaning if you're a believer you should be experiencing them. There is a difference in receiving the Holy Spirit at the new birth and receiving the Holy Ghost. Same Spirit of G-d, but diversities thereof.
And again, note that it said that the gift was for ALL. Peace
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