I'm having a hard time understanding what prophecy & tounges means in I Corinthians 14 (believer, scripture)
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I have nothing to offer the OP because I have no idea...all I know is that after
being Baptized in the Holy Spirit...I touched people and they were healed
(haha, even a militant, angry atheist that saw what was happening as
I walked around a BBQ, not knowing I was healing people!)
and I could pray in tongues...and wowsa...that is all I can say.
But do you know Jesus Christ? If I remember correctly from another thread, you still need a personal relationship with Him. Did you pray for Him to reveal Himself to you as I challenged you? Did you repent from sin, and do you know your sins are forgiven by faith in Jesus Christ?
Saul was anointed aswell but his heart never changed. Judas Iskariot probably went out right along with the other disciples casting out demons, since not any of the disciples figured Judas was the traitor. Miracles don't save you, only a personal relationship with Jesus Christ through repentance from sin and faith in Him, will save you Miss Hepburn.
Matthew 7:22-23 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
ONLY in the Book pertaining to the Church of Corinth is the so-called "tongues" phenomenon spoken of. You will not find it in Romans, Galatians, Ephesians, Philippians, Colossians or Thessalonians. Why? Because the 'tongues' spoken of have a geographical connection and NOT a supernatural connection.
As mentioned previously. Corinth was a crossroads for travelers and traders and, therefore, a number of different languages from those of different nationalities were common place. Not everyone understood everyone else. The Corinthian church was evidently plagued with numerous problems, including much confusion surrounding the various languages that were being spoken by the different nationalities.
The so-called "angelic tongues" spoken by those in present-day Pentecostal churches are no more than the similar giddy ramblings of an ecstatic child. None of this is scriptural ...it's simply a charismatic invention that is supposed to indicate that one is "Spirit-filled".
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Originally Posted by Rbbi1
Too bad for your theory, Acts took place in Jerusalem.
I referred to Corinthians. It's FROM Corinthians that the charismatic churches justify their babble nonsense as being an authentic 'divine language'. And, in Acts the 'tongues' that were spoken were recognized by the nationals who normally spoke the languages they heard. It's no 'theory' that biblical 'tongues' are simply 'languages'. There is no reference to 'angel speak' (except as used as a term of hyperbole by Paul) that Pentecostals claim to use.
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Originally Posted by Rbbi1
Once again, you have never experienced it, so you're talking about something you know not. Peace
Ah, so we have a 'tongue-speaker' in our midst, eh? Why on earth would I want to experience something that is no more than a sham?
Since you are unrepentant in general, I wouldn't expect you to want MORE of G-d or His power, nor can you receive it without repentance. So it's a moot point for you, isn't it?
And again, since you've never experienced it, your opinion is about as valid as a plumber trying to advise on brain surgery. Peace
Since you are unrepentant in general, I wouldn't expect you to want MORE of G-d or His power, nor can you receive it without repentance. So it's a moot point for you, isn't it?
Two things. One, how do you know whether or not I'm repentant? Does G-d send out a daily memo to His 'fruit inspectors' as to who has and who has not repented? Two, what am I supposed to be repentant of? My present lifestyle would probably qualify me for a position at the local monastery.
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Originally Posted by Rbbi1
And again, since you've never experienced it, your opinion is about as valid as a plumber trying to advise on brain surgery. Peace
No, I've never experienced being hypnotized either but I can tell you that hypnotism would not work on me. I'm not that gullible. And, gullibility IS a requirement for so-called 'tongue speaking'. I've met several former Pentecostals who admit to having been duped into this meaningless practice, even though they may have once sincerely believed that it was genuine. One close friend of mine some years ago could break out 'in tongues' at a moments notice ...just to prove how fake they are. His wife, both former charismatics, could do the same. They sounded like the, um, real thing. Their young son could also do a very good impression of Donald Duck!
My take on this is just about as simple a take as one could get. No one can prove that 'tongues' are a gift from God ...NO ONE! No one can prove that 'tongues' are an 'angelic language' ...NO ONE! SO, if it can be faked - which it CLEARLY can be - then you can bet your bottom dollar that it IS fake!
Moreover, the Pentecostal form of narcissistic 'tongue speaking' has nothing to do with scripture! All it does is to puff them up so that they can belittle 'non-tongue speakers' with comments such as, "Your opinion is about as valid as a plumber trying to advise on brain surgery."
Which is why universal is good. In some ways, were the same. I respect all life and love all people. These teachings are generally true and good, or, always true and good.
Two things. One, how do you know whether or not I'm repentant? Does G-d send out a daily memo to His 'fruit inspectors' as to who has and who has not repented? Two, what am I supposed to be repentant of? My present lifestyle would probably qualify me for a position at the local monastery.
No, I've never experienced being hypnotized either but I can tell you that hypnotism would not work on me. I'm not that gullible. And, gullibility IS a requirement for so-called 'tongue speaking'. I've met several former Pentecostals who admit to having been duped into this meaningless practice, even though they may have once sincerely believed that it was genuine. One close friend of mine some years ago could break out 'in tongues' at a moments notice ...just to prove how fake they are. His wife, both former charismatics, could do the same. They sounded like the, um, real thing. Their young son could also do a very good impression of Donald Duck!
My take on this is just about as simple a take as one could get. No one can prove that 'tongues' are a gift from God ...NO ONE! No one can prove that 'tongues' are an 'angelic language' ...NO ONE! SO, if it can be faked - which it CLEARLY can be - then you can bet your bottom dollar that it IS fake!
Moreover, the Pentecostal form of narcissistic 'tongue speaking' has nothing to do with scripture! All it does is to puff them up so that they can belittle 'non-tongue speakers' with comments such as, "Your opinion is about as valid as a plumber trying to advise on brain surgery."
1) Do you really think it's hard to figure out from your posts?
2) Nor did hypnotism work on me, just fyi...And just because your former friends didn't get the real McCoy, doesn't mean a thing. Sorta like if you got a counterfeit $20 bill and deduced from that then that all $20 bills must be counterfeit, kind of inept reasoning. Tip: if YOU can do it, it's not His Spirit you got. There is a difference between mouthing "words" and the Spirit praying through someone, and anyone with the Spirit can easily discern the difference, since the spirit of the prophets (and HE IS a prophet) is subject unto the prophets. He did not leave us without a witness.
3) Again, not true. It is a SPIRITUAL experience, which is NOT at the command of men. The argument that everyone heard a discussion in their own native language that day is sort of like if you heard a great speech by someone and decided 5 minutes later to sell all your possessions and follow an apparently dead leader even if it meant torture and death. It wouldn't happen then, and it wouldn't happen today if it were NOT a SPIRITUAL experience that changes you. ALL men seek after their own things and not the things which be of Christ, is not cute saying, it's a statement of pure fact. Without His Spirit, there is NOTHING in man that wants to seek after the things of CHRIST.
4) I think it's hilarious that you think it's narcissistic, and yes it absolutely is in scripture, that's an absurd very visible lie. And as for the narcissistic aspect of it, after all, who WOULDN'T want to speak in an unknown language in front of crowds of people you probably don't know?
Yeah, right. Just the opposite is generally true. Pride and embarrassment at feeling "singled out" in some way, and general rebelliousness, are common stumbling blocks to people who care more about preserving their self image than Christ's image being formed in them. And of course, the number one reason to SUBMIT to it is because it was not a request, it was a command from Him.
And I stand by my statement, that without having experienced it YOURSELF, your opinion is indeed like a plumber trying to offer advice on brain surgery. You are vastly underqualified. Peace
1) Do you really think it's hard to figure out from your posts?
2) Nor did hypnotism work on me, just fyi...And just because your former friends didn't get the real McCoy, doesn't mean a thing. Sorta like if you got a counterfeit $20 bill and deduced from that then that all $20 bills must be counterfeit, kind of inept reasoning. Tip: if YOU can do it, it's not His Spirit you got. There is a difference between mouthing "words" and the Spirit praying through someone, and anyone with the Spirit can easily discern the difference, since the spirit of the prophets (and HE IS a prophet) is subject unto the prophets. He did not leave us without a witness.
3) Again, not true. It is a SPIRITUAL experience, which is NOT at the command of men. The argument that everyone heard a discussion in their own native language that day is sort of like if you heard a great speech by someone and decided 5 minutes later to sell all your possessions and follow an apparently dead leader even if it meant torture and death. It wouldn't happen then, and it wouldn't happen today if it were NOT a SPIRITUAL experience that changes you. ALL men seek after their own things and not the things which be of Christ, is not cute saying, it's a statement of pure fact. Without His Spirit, there is NOTHING in man that wants to seek after the things of CHRIST.
4) I think it's hilarious that you think it's narcissistic, and yes it absolutely is in scripture, that's an absurd very visible lie. And as for the narcissistic aspect of it, after all, who WOULDN'T want to speak in an unknown language in front of crowds of people you probably don't know?
Yeah, right. Just the opposite is generally true. Pride and embarrassment at feeling "singled out" in some way, and general rebelliousness, are common stumbling blocks to people who care more about preserving their self image than Christ's image being formed in them. And of course, the number one reason to SUBMIT to it is because it was not a request, it was a command from Him.
And I stand by my statement, that without having experienced it YOURSELF, your opinion is indeed like a plumber trying to offer advice on brain surgery. You are vastly underqualified. Peace
1) Do you really think it's hard to figure out from your posts?
2) Nor did hypnotism work on me, just fyi...And just because your former friends didn't get the real McCoy, doesn't mean a thing. Sorta like if you got a counterfeit $20 bill and deduced from that then that all $20 bills must be counterfeit, kind of inept reasoning. Tip: if YOU can do it, it's not His Spirit you got. There is a difference between mouthing "words" and the Spirit praying through someone, and anyone with the Spirit can easily discern the difference, since the spirit of the prophets (and HE IS a prophet) is subject unto the prophets. He did not leave us without a witness.
3) Again, not true. It is a SPIRITUAL experience, which is NOT at the command of men. The argument that everyone heard a discussion in their own native language that day is sort of like if you heard a great speech by someone and decided 5 minutes later to sell all your possessions and follow an apparently dead leader even if it meant torture and death. It wouldn't happen then, and it wouldn't happen today if it were NOT a SPIRITUAL experience that changes you. ALL men seek after their own things and not the things which be of Christ, is not cute saying, it's a statement of pure fact. Without His Spirit, there is NOTHING in man that wants to seek after the things of CHRIST.
4) I think it's hilarious that you think it's narcissistic, and yes it absolutely is in scripture, that's an absurd very visible lie. And as for the narcissistic aspect of it, after all, who WOULDN'T want to speak in an unknown language in front of crowds of people you probably don't know?
Yeah, right. Just the opposite is generally true. Pride and embarrassment at feeling "singled out" in some way, and general rebelliousness, are common stumbling blocks to people who care more about preserving their self image than Christ's image being formed in them. And of course, the number one reason to SUBMIT to it is because it was not a request, it was a command from Him.
And I stand by my statement, that without having experienced it YOURSELF, your opinion is indeed like a plumber trying to offer advice on brain surgery. You are vastly underqualified. Peace
Amen brother, we need Christs image to be formed in us through the Holy Spirit more and more, we need to be sanctified day by day. Which is the most important and lasting continual Spiritual experience after rebirth. It's so sad many people fight against that which can save and cleanse them, against Christs mercy and forgiveness, and rather hang on to their self-preserving pride and rebellion.. only if we submit to Jesus Christ that will be the true happiness and eternal life!
Two things. One, how do you know whether or not I'm repentant? Does G-d send out a daily memo to His 'fruit inspectors' as to who has and who has not repented? Two, what am I supposed to be repentant of? My present lifestyle would probably qualify me for a position at the local monastery.
No, I've never experienced being hypnotized either but I can tell you that hypnotism would not work on me. I'm not that gullible. And, gullibility IS a requirement for so-called 'tongue speaking'. I've met several former Pentecostals who admit to having been duped into this meaningless practice, even though they may have once sincerely believed that it was genuine. One close friend of mine some years ago could break out 'in tongues' at a moments notice ...just to prove how fake they are. His wife, both former charismatics, could do the same. They sounded like the, um, real thing. Their young son could also do a very good impression of Donald Duck!
My take on this is just about as simple a take as one could get. No one can prove that 'tongues' are a gift from God ...NO ONE! No one can prove that 'tongues' are an 'angelic language' ...NO ONE! SO, if it can be faked - which it CLEARLY can be - then you can bet your bottom dollar that it IS fake!
Moreover, the Pentecostal form of narcissistic 'tongue speaking' has nothing to do with scripture! All it does is to puff them up so that they can belittle 'non-tongue speakers' with comments such as, "Your opinion is about as valid as a plumber trying to advise on brain surgery."
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rbbi1
1) Do you really think it's hard to figure out from your posts?
You can figure out from my posts that I'm not repentant of a specific ‘sin’? Which ‘sin’ do you get from my posts that I need to repent of? Is it 'the sin' of not condemning LGBT people?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rbbi1
2) Nor did hypnotism work on me, just fyi...And just because your former friends didn't get the real McCoy, doesn't mean a thing. Sorta like if you got a counterfeit $20 bill and deduced from that then that all $20 bills must be counterfeit, kind of inept reasoning.
Hmmm, not a good analogy, Rbbi1. A fake $20 bill can pass as a $20 bill to the untrained eye because it’s a replica of the original. It looks the same. But not to the trained eye. The trained eye can spot a counterfeit pretty quickly. One cannot, however, fake speaking in, say, Swahili to someone who is already familiar with Swahili. It’s either Swahili or it’s not Swahili. Known languages cannot be faked. So called “angel speak” has no original with which to compare it with - or even that it exists at all - so it cannot be verified as being real or fake. So we therefore must logically err on the side of fake because that is invariably what it is!
By the way, I AM telling the absolute truth regarding my former friends. They're 'former' because we all moved on over the years and pursued other interests. They still live in town as i do and are, as far as I know, still church-goers. This is not to mention, of course, that there are many, many former 'tongue speakers' who left this 'fakery' behind.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rbbi1
Tip: if YOU can do it, it's not His Spirit you got. There is a difference between mouthing "words" and the Spirit praying through someone, and anyone with the Spirit can easily discern the difference, since the spirit of the prophets (and HE IS a prophet) is subject unto the prophets. He did not leave us without a witness.
This has no scriptural support. There is no such thing as a 'prayer language'. This is all Charismatic nonsense, just the same as their ‘slaying in the spirit’, rolling around the floor laughing hysterically, howling like wolves, cackling like geese, etc. etc. to somehow 'prove' that they have 'an infilling of the Holy Spirit'. It’s nothing more than a circus.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rbbi1
3) Again, not true. It is a SPIRITUAL experience, which is NOT at the command of men. The argument that everyone heard a discussion in their own native language that day is sort of like if you heard a great speech by someone and decided 5 minutes later to sell all your possessions and follow an apparently dead leader even if it meant torture and death. It wouldn't happen then, and it wouldn't happen today if it were NOT a SPIRITUAL experience that changes you. ALL men seek after their own things and not the things which be of Christ, is not cute saying, it's a statement of pure fact. Without His Spirit, there is NOTHING in man that wants to seek after the things of CHRIST.
Whatever you said above has no scriptural foundation. This is all man-made “I’m holier than thou because "I" have an infilling of the Holy Spirit and "you" don’t …na, na, na, na, na na!” stuff.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rbbi1
4) I think it's hilarious that you think it's narcissistic, and yes it absolutely is in scripture, that's an absurd very visible lie. And as for the narcissistic aspect of it, after all, who WOULDN'T want to speak in an unknown language in front of crowds of people you probably don't know?
There's nothing hilarious about my take on this subject. From yours, to be sure. There is no such thing as an ‘unknown’ language on Planet Earth. Every language on earth is known by someone who speaks that language. There is no such thing (nothing from the Bible anyway) that suggests that human beings can converse in ‘angel speak’. In fact, if we’re going to use the Bible as our source for facts then let us listen to Paul when he says that he was caught up into paradise, i.e. heaven, and heard unspeakable words (angel speak?), which it is not lawful for a man to utter (2 Corinthians 12:4).
One’s jabbering away in giddy childish babble and implying to others that if they can’t do the same it proves that they have no infilling of the Holy Spirit (and therefore not saved!) IS narcissistic as well as a lie. i.e. an abomination.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rbbi1
Yeah, right. Just the opposite is generally true. Pride and embarrassment at feeling "singled out" in some way, and general rebelliousness, are common stumbling blocks to people who care more about preserving their self image than Christ's image being formed in them. And of course, the number one reason to SUBMIT to it is because it was not a request, it was a command from Him.
Whatever ...the Bible facts are that the term 'tongues' as used in scripture refer to KNOWN languages and nothing other. The people of Paul's day who he was admonishing in the Church of Corinth were the charismatic Christians of our day. The city of Corinth and the many foreign languages being spoken are the key to understanding these particular 'localized' scriptures. As mentioned previously, there is no mention of 'tongues' (angelic or otherwise) in any of the other Pauline books. Think "Corinthian", study the context, the time, the place, the diverse people and put two and two together!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rbbi1
And I stand by my statement, that without having experienced it YOURSELF, your opinion is indeed like a plumber trying to offer advice on brain surgery. You are vastly underqualified. Peace
Are you saying that you pray in an angelic language? Is this what you're getting at without actually having told us this as yet? If you do claim to do so then i would have to ask, do you know what you're saying when you pray in this alleged 'language'? If you don't, then why in God's name would the Holy Spirit (through you) be praying to himself since he is the only one who can understand? This is not to mention, of course, that it's the height of ludicrity (if that wasn't a word previously, it is now) for one to be praying in a 'language' that one does not know when it would be far more logical for one to be praying in a language that they DO know! Assuming that your native 'tongue' is English, have you simply tried praying in 'English tongues'?
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