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Back when I was 18, one of the elders of our congregation was discovered naked in bed with a 14-year-old boy. The other elder board members solemnly intoned "We can't judge" and the man retained his position on the elder board.
Matthew 18 along with Romans 1:5 tells us that there are some harmful behaviors within our congregations that we certainly must judge on the basis of the harm they cause.
Yeah, that's called rape. And shame on everyone who knew and did not phone the authorities.
I'm just not a bible literalist apt to use certain phrases to then cast 'sin'.
Big difference between rape and sexual promiscuity between consenting adults.
The response to his behavior as criminal was handled by other means, as also to be understood by 1 Corinthians 5. The elder board had no decision to make about that.
What was in the hands of the elder board was his position on the board and in the congregation--which they flubbed.
But those elders who are sinning you are to reprove before everyone, so that the others may take warning.
-- 1 Timothy 5:20
Sure they did. You don't leave a person who harms children in a position where they can continue to do so. This is what I'm talking about with people and their black and white extremes. "Don't judge" doesn't mean take it to an extreme and allow people to harm children, and it doesn't mean ignoring criminal behavior. Common sense. Sheesh.
Sure they did. You don't leave a person who harms children in a position where they can continue to do so. This is what I'm talking about with people and their black and white extremes. "Don't judge" doesn't mean take it to an extreme and allow people to harm children, and it doesn't mean ignoring criminal behavior. Common sense. Sheesh.
Sure they did. You don't leave a person who harms children in a position where they can continue to do so. This is what I'm talking about with people and their black and white extremes. "Don't judge" doesn't mean take it to an extreme and allow people to harm children, and it doesn't mean ignoring criminal behavior. Common sense. Sheesh.
Why are you only worried about harming children? Is that the only thing any judgment of behavior should be made about? Only with regard to children? And only with regard to what the law deems "criminal?"
So is nobody harmed when a man leaves his wife or another woman? They were both consenting adults. What about a man who seduces multiple women and leaves them with children and no support? Or what if there are no children--he just breaks their hearts. The women were consenting at the time.
And all this is going on within the congregation among people who should be unified by love and care for one another.
Most groups of friends can determine, at the very least, "Irving is a jerk. We don't want to hang around Irving if he won't act like a decent person." I'll bet you practice that yourself--avoiding jerks.
But you're denying that privilege to a congregation.
Back when I was 18, one of the elders of our congregation was discovered naked in bed with a 14-year-old boy. The other elder board members solemnly intoned "We can't judge" and the man retained his position on the elder board.
Matthew 18 along with Romans 1:5 tells us that there are some harmful behaviors within our congregations that we certainly must judge on the basis of the harm they cause.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jerwade
There is a huge difference between consenting adults, and children.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ralph_Kirk
I never know what your responses to me actually mean.
When consenting adults screw up their lives for whatever reason, it's their business, not yours. However, if they decide to confide in you for whatever reason, then I hope you aren't judgmental. Again, there is a huge difference when it comes to children being abused or exploited. Although I would not expect you to stand there, while a man is beating his wife?
Why are you only worried about harming children? Is that the only thing any judgment of behavior should be made about? Only with regard to children? And only with regard to what the law deems "criminal?"
So is nobody harmed when a man leaves his wife or another woman? They were both consenting adults. What about a man who seduces multiple women and leaves them with children and no support? Or what if there are no children--he just breaks their hearts. The women were consenting at the time.
And all this is going on within the congregation among people who should be unified by love and care for one another.
Most groups of friends can determine, at the very least, "Irving is a jerk. We don't want to hang around Irving if he won't act like a decent person." I'll bet you practice that yourself--avoiding jerks.
But you're denying that privilege to a congregation.
Privilege? Honey, you do whatever you want. No one is stopping you. You want to shun people, you go right ahead. Of course, most groups of friends probably don't claim to have the authority of God to declare a person condemned and unfit for association. They just own up to the fact that it's personal preference who they want to keep company with and who they don't.
Privilege? Honey, you do whatever you want. No one is stopping you. You want to shun people, you go right ahead. Of course, most groups of friends probably don't claim to have the authority of God to declare a person condemned and unfit for association. They just own up to the fact that it's personal preference who they want to keep company with and who they don't.
Privilege? Honey, you do whatever you want. No one is stopping you. You want to shun people, you go right ahead. Of course, most groups of friends probably don't claim to have the authority of God to declare a person condemned and unfit for association. They just own up to the fact that it's personal preference who they want to keep company with and who they don't.
Okay. So? What's the difference if you don't care to be in that group anyway?
It seems to me that although 1 Corinthians 5 means that Christians should stay out of the business of non-Christians, there doesn't seem to be any rule for non-Christians to stay out of the business of Christians.
Okay. So? What's the difference if you don't care to be in that group anyway?
It seems to me that although 1 Corinthians 5 means that Christians should stay out of the business of non-Christians, there doesn't seem to be any rule for non-Christians to stay out of the business of Christians.
I have no idea what you are trying to ask, or what point you are trying to make.
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