Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
You are correct but for the wrong reason, Mike. We are saved because we do NOT have anything to do with it. Jesus did it and it is finished. We just have to have faith that He DID what He said He DID! That is different than professing some set of beliefs about God and Jesus, whatever they may be, to be considered a member of some church or other.
As I've said, I don't know who is worse. Those who think you must do something to earn your salvation, or people like you who falsely teach that everyone is already saved. Neither view is correct. The Scriptures are clear that in order to obtain eternal life, you must place your faith in Jesus. Faith in Jesus is the way in which one takes possession of the free gift of eternal life which is offered to everyone. But you must take possession of it. And faith in Christ Jesus is the way in which a person takes possession of it. If you don't believe that Jesus died for your sins, and that He rose again, then you have not been saved and remain under condemnation. This is the clear teaching of the apostles to whom Jesus actually spoke.
You are correct but for the wrong reason, Mike. We are saved because we do NOT have anything to do with it. Jesus did it and it is finished. We just have to have faith that He DID what He said He DID! That is different than professing some set of beliefs about God and Jesus, whatever they may be, to be considered a member of some church or other.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike555
As I've said, I don't know who is worse. Those who think you must do something to earn your salvation, or people like you who falsely teach that everyone is already saved. Neither view is correct. The Scriptures are clear that in order to obtain eternal life, you must place your faith in Jesus. Faith in Jesus is the way in which one takes possession of the free gift of eternal life which is offered to everyone. But you must take possession of it. And faith in Christ Jesus is the way in which a person takes possession of it. If you don't believe that Jesus died for your sins, and that He rose again, then you have not been saved and remain under condemnation. This is the clear teaching of the apostles to whom Jesus actually spoke.
There are only two options and they are mutually exclusive. We either need to do something to save ourselves or we do not. You can't pretend that having to do something like believe some church's set of creeds is NOT doing something!!! Either Jesus saved us and we do NOT have to do anything to save ourselves, or He didn't and we DO have to do something to save ourselves. Jesus saved us, period!
As I've said, I don't know who is worse. Those who think you must do something to earn your salvation, or people like you who falsely teach that everyone is already saved. Neither view is correct. The Scriptures are clear that in order to obtain eternal life, you must place your faith in Jesus. Faith in Jesus is the way in which one takes possession of the free gift of eternal life which is offered to everyone. But you must take possession of it. And faith in Christ Jesus is the way in which a person takes possession of it. If you don't believe that Jesus died for your sins, and that He rose again, then you have not been saved and remain under condemnation. This is the clear teaching of the apostles to whom Jesus actually spoke.
False, you follow a syncretistic Christian/Pagan belief-system that says:
"We must appease the gods with a blood sacrifice or suffer their wrath."
There are only two options and they are mutually exclusive. We either need to do something to save ourselves or we do not. You can't pretend that having to do something like believe some church's set of creeds is NOT doing something!!! Either Jesus saved us and we do NOT have to do anything to save ourselves, or He didn't and we DO have to do something to save ourselves. Jesus saved us, period!
He thinks God is angry and must be appeased through sacrifice and human merit.
There are only two options and they are mutually exclusive. We either need to do something to save ourselves or we do not. You can't pretend that having to do something like believe some church's set of creeds is NOT doing something!!! Either Jesus saved us and we do NOT have to do anything to save ourselves, or He didn't and we DO have to do something to save ourselves. Jesus saved us, period!
I have never said anyone has to believe some church's set of creeds, or to do any kind of meritorious work in order to be saved. I have always said that to have eternal life, a person simply has to trust in the finished redemptive work of Christ on the cross. The fact that Jesus paid the penalty for everyone's sins doesn't mean that everyone, is automatically saved. Eternal life is a gift which is offered to everyone. Only when a person places their faith in Christ is the gift received.
The Bible states time after time that one must believe in Jesus in order to be saved.
He thinks God is angry and must be appeased through sacrifice and human merit.
No, I don't think that God is angry. Nor do I believe that human merit has anything to do with obtaining eternal life. But God's plan of salvation did require that Jesus die for the sins of the world.
As I've said, I don't know who is worse. Those who think you must do something to earn your salvation, or people like you who falsely teach that everyone is already saved. Neither view is correct. The Scriptures are clear that in order to obtain eternal life, you must place your faith in Jesus. Faith in Jesus is the way in which one takes possession of the free gift of eternal life which is offered to everyone. But you must take possession of it. And faith in Christ Jesus is the way in which a person takes possession of it. If you don't believe that Jesus died for your sins, and that He rose again, then you have not been saved and remain under condemnation. This is the clear teaching of the apostles to whom Jesus actually spoke.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jerwade
False, you follow a syncretistic Christian/Pagan belief-system that says:
"We must appease the gods with a blood sacrifice or suffer their wrath."
It's time you woke-up to the truth.
It was Jesus who offered Himself as a sacrifice on our behalf, so that anyone who believes in Him has eternal life. It was His sacrifice which satisfied the righteousness of God the Father.
It was Jesus who offered Himself as a sacrifice on our behalf, so that anyone who believes in Him has eternal life. It was His sacrifice which satisfied the righteousness of God the Father.
Sacrifice! LOL! Where is the sacrifice when you know you will be back in three days with added benefits? Hundreds of thousands have given their lives KNOWING that they will never come back, THAT is a sacrifice. Your man-god sacrificed NOTHING.
He thinks God is angry and must be appeased through sacrifice and human merit.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike555
No, I don't think that God is angry. Nor do I believe that human merit has anything to do with obtaining eternal life. But God's plan of salvation did require that Jesus die for the sins of the world.
The Penal Substitution theory is based on a mistaken belief. What God desires may be opposite to that of your own understanding or what you have been taught. Paul in Galatians (5:22) writes about the fruit of the spirit being: love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness and self-control. To this we could include; purity, humility, modesty, character, wisdom, enthusiasm, dignity, optimism, confidence, honesty and mercy. This is what it means to have life in all its fullness. And these things come from God, who is the giver of all good things.
The abundant life is free from selfishness, hatred, lust (living under sins temptations), unforgiveness, envy, jealousy, fear, drunkenness, sexual immorality, discord, anger, dishonesty, greed, gossiping, slander, pessimism and despair. Where love grows cold. But the good news is that God can remove all of these negative characteristics from a person's life – it's only a matter of a heart condition.
People say that God had to pour out his anger (wrath) against sin, either on us or Jesus in order to satisfy his justice. If this is the case, then, there is neither mercy nor forgiveness. However, I am sure you will miss this, and sweep it under the carpet of a blood sacrifice to appease the demands of a Holy and infinite God.
If justice was served – there would be no need for mercy or any forgiveness. And scapegoating is not a defense, you cannot slaughter the innocent and call it the righteousness of God that covers your sin.
Last edited by Jerwade; 07-23-2016 at 10:13 AM..
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
