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I'm guessing you don't believe the Bible to be authored by God then? If so, then your fight is with the Bible.
No I don't, but that has nothing to do with how it SHOULD be interpreted within its own context. All I was pointing out was that you are mixing up two traditions and one has NOTHING to do with the other.
Why did he have to? He ALLOWED him to do what he wanted to. Same thing, don't you think?
No. Allowed is not the same as assigned or ordered. It's like being ordered and asking to do wickness. If ordered, it's the person ordering who came up with the wicked idea. If it's a person asking then it's the person asking wicked idea. Satan wanted to prove his point that man will blame God to His face if he his stuck with atrocities. God knew Job's heart thus knew Job would stay faithful and allowed Satan to prove it. God wanted to show Satan as a miserable failure, liar and false accuser. The only way to proof it was to allow Satan to prove it. Now, think of it. You're blaming God for the wickedness of the world right? Aren't proving Satan correct and God a liar? Aren't you cursing God to His face? Who are you blaming for all the wickedness in the world? If Satan wasn't wicked the subject would have never came up. Or do you think God order's wickedness on people. If so, then I know what side you are on. When Job said, "it is unthinkable for God to act wickedly" was Job wrong?
Last edited by 2Timothy316; 07-07-2016 at 11:05 AM..
If you don't believe the Bible to be the Word of God then I have nothing else to show you. If you ever believe the Bible to be the Word of God then we will have something to talk about. Until then we have no common ground for any sort of discussion except flawed reasoning, and that's how all false religions came into existence in the first place. Good day.
Being saved from God? No, being saved from sin that in turn incurs death. To turn from wrong doing is to turn towards God. There is no saving for those that turn away from God.
As I brought out in another thread. There's a hidden cliff. There's a sign at the cliff that says, "Danger Cliff! Don't jump in, you will die." A person ignores the sign, jumps in anyway and dies. Who's to blame? Gravity? The sign? The person that put up the sign? Or the person that decided to jump off the cliff? If a person doesn't fall because they read the sign and avoids the cliff, who is the savior? Isn't it the sign maker?
Folks have to realize there is a choice in all of this. Oh but there is no eternal fire BTW.
Quote:
Originally Posted by InsaneInDaMembrane
"Saved from sin?" What does that even mean?
Good question.
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2Timothy316
If you don't believe the Bible to be the Word of God then I have nothing else to show you. If you ever believe the Bible to be the Word of God then we will have something to talk about. Until then we have no common ground for any sort of discussion except flawed reasoning, and that's how all false religions came into existence in the first place. Good day.
This is one of the favorite retreats when a "bible-believer" is confronted by something to which they do not have an answer.
Did god know everything satan will do before it created satan?
Can satan do anything god doesn't approve of?
Guys still aren't thinking for yourselves.
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2Timothy316
No. Allowed is not the same as assigned or ordered. It's like being ordered and asking to do wickness. If ordered, it's the person ordering who came up with the wicked idea. If it's a person asking then it's the person asking wicked idea. Satan wanted to prove his point that man will blame God to His face if he his stuck with atrocities. God knew Job's heart thus knew Job would stay faithful and allowed Satan to prove it. God wanted to show Satan as a miserable failure, liar and false accuser. The only way to proof it was to allow Satan to prove it. Now, think of it. You're blaming God for the wickedness of the world right? Aren't proving Satan correct and God a liar? Aren't you cursing God to His face? Who are you blaming for all the wickedness in the world? If Satan wasn't wicked the subject would have never came up. Or do you think God order's wickedness on people. If so, then I know what side you are on. When Job said, "it is unthinkable for God to act wickedly" was Job wrong?
Satan had to be preprogrammed by god at the moment of creation. If not then where did satan learn evil in a perfect God world?
Is the god you're describing all knowing and all powerful?
No. Allowed is not the same as assigned or ordered. It's like being ordered and asking to do wickness. If ordered, it's the person ordering who came up with the wicked idea.
Would the words "complicit" and "accomplice" be better then?
This is one of the favorite retreats when a "bible-believer" is confronted by something to which they do not have an answer.
That's because I don't trust human answers that don't have the answers that God has. I am a proud Bible-believer. A 'human-believer' is always relative to what a person WANTS to believe. Belief and truth are not the same thing. Humans have a lot of belief and not much truth. I have faith that the Bible holds truth and those that only have belief are building a house on sand. So a retreat? Not hardly, more like I like saving time and get straight to point that we would inevitably come to, that we will disagree where we get our truth from. I have had more of these conversations than I can count. I know how to save time.
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