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Hello Maat55, contrary to what you state above God most assuredly did convey His message in a very plain easily understandable way. The problem is not with what God said, it is with the people who refuse, for whatever reason, to believe that which He plainly states.
Not only does God plainly tell us what to believe He even commands us to teach it.
Take a look at this scripture which we are to believe and commanded to teach. Is there any doubt which doctrine we are commanded to teach?
1 Tim.4:10-11
“For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe.”
“These things command and teach.”
If this were the case there would not be numerous fractions of Christianity with contrasting doctrines. We would not be debating ET, annihilation or universalism. There would be no contradictions in the bible. Take off the rose colored glasses and actually study the bible, critically.
If this were the case there would not be numerous fractions of Christianity with contrasting doctrines. We would not be debating ET, annihilation or universalism. There would be no contradictions in the bible. Take off the rose colored glasses and actually study the bible, critically.
I studied the bible for 3 years in 3 different languages... What did I come up with? These are people trying to explain real world experiences with what they felt spiritually. So What happens after death? Have you met someone who died? Then we can not be sure. However, if you combine science with what you read in the bible then you can only conclude that the energy in you returns to its collective energy. The Son (sun) is our source of energy. Without the Sun (son) we cannot survive. Therefore, it stands to reason that our energy when we are dead will return to it's source.
The first law of thermodynamics supports this: Energy can neither be created nor destroyed; rather, it transforms from one form to another.
This actually supports reincarnation more than other religious views though I don't have any experience in reincarnation (bad life your next is a frog.... kinda thing). However, it makes sense that your bodily energy must go somewhere... annihilation is not a viable option.. neither is ET... universalism may fit but would have to embrace reincarnation.
Best guess is that when we die our energy goes back to the source to be reused as the creator wishes.
The first law of thermodynamics supports this: Energy can neither be created nor destroyed; rather, it transforms from one form to another.
This actually supports reincarnation more than other religious views though I don't have any experience in reincarnation (bad life your next is a frog.... kinda thing). However, it makes sense that your bodily energy must go somewhere... annihilation is not a viable option.. neither is ET... universalism may fit but would have to embrace reincarnation.
Best guess is that when we die our energy goes back to the source to be reused as the creator wishes.
When you die, all of your energy is converted to heat or food for other animals/bacteria. Your energy will no longer be powering "you."
If ET is biblical and therefore good, why should t we just torture inmates? Why not first torment killers, then burn them to death? Should get plenty of support in a Christian nation.
The first law of thermodynamics supports this: Energy can neither be created nor destroyed; rather, it transforms from one form to another.
Best guess is that when we die our energy goes back to the source to be reused as the creator wishes.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Freak80
When you die, all of your energy is converted to heat or food for other animals/bacteria. Your energy will no longer be powering "you."
Above perfectly explains the writings of the wisest king to ever rule Israel in Ecclesiastes 12:7 "Then the dust returns to the earth, just as it was, and the spirit returns to the true God who gave it."
As far as reincarnation though, if you want to apply that to the reuse of our bodies and energy at an atomic level I'd say sure, makes sense. However, who we are as a person is not stored in energy or individual atoms. It's stored in our brains which is made of a highly complex arrangement of 'dust' or atoms. Without energy running through our brains, we are brain dead. Our brains are a super complex biological CPU and hard drive that makes up who we are. Only our Creator can 'save' or recall every single 'byte' of that information and restore that biological CPU and hard drive EXACTLY as it was and return 'spirit' or energy to it and make it a 'living soul' again. As Luke 20:37, 38 says "But that the dead are raised up... He is a God, not of the dead, but of the living, for they are all living to him.” Every person that God wants to live again, though dead, are in a way 'living in Him', His memory. He is our backup system and restorer.
Hello Maat55, contrary to what you state above God most assuredly did convey His message in a very plain easily understandable way. The problem is not with what God said, it is with the people who refuse, for whatever reason, to believe that which He plainly states.
Not only does God plainly tell us what to believe He even commands us to teach it.
Take a look at this scripture which we are to believe and commanded to teach. Is there any doubt which doctrine we are commanded to teach?
1 Tim.4:10-11
“For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe.”
“These things command and teach.”
Quote:
Originally Posted by maat55
If this were the case there would not be numerous fractions of Christianity with contrasting doctrines. We would not be debating ET, annihilation or universalism. There would be no contradictions in the bible. Take off the rose colored glasses and actually study the bible, critically.
Sorry Maat, you said God did not clearly state what He wanted mankind to believe. I showed you not only where God did, but also showed you where God commanded us what to teach it. it is spelled out very plainly in that scripture.
People today simply refuse to believe what is plainly stated, it is foolishness to them. They have been indoctrinated into a doctrine and their doctrine has become their gospel instead of letting the gospel define their doctrine.
As for studying the bible critically, you do not know me, nor the road I have traveled to get to the understanding I have today. However, one thing is certain, only 1 doctrine of the 3 main doctrines of the early church fully supports that which we are commanded to teach, and we all know which doctrine that is.
So the question is do you (not speaking to just you but to everyone reading) believe what we are commanded to teach, which is plainly ( don't know how more plain God could have made it) stated or will you continue to teach another gospel.
Sorry Maat, you said God did not clearly state what He wanted mankind to believe. I showed you not only where God did, but also showed you where God commanded us what to teach it. it is spelled out very plainly in that scripture.
People today simply refuse to believe what is plainly stated, it is foolishness to them. They have been indoctrinated into a doctrine and their doctrine has become their gospel instead of letting the gospel define their doctrine.
As for studying the bible critically, you do not know me, nor the road I have traveled to get to the understanding I have today. However, one thing is certain, only 1 doctrine of the 3 main doctrines of the early church fully supports that which we are commanded to teach, and we all know which doctrine that is.
So the question is do you (not speaking to just you but to everyone reading) believe what we are commanded to teach, which is plainly ( don't know how more plain God could have made it) stated or will you continue to teach another gospel.
You're joking right? That scripture lays out Christianity and the will of God? It says nothing other than you should believe this unspecified doctrine in this book filled with contradictions, immoral laws and brutal punishments. I choose not to have "faith" in the absurd.
You're joking right? That scripture lays out Christianity and the will of God? It says nothing other than you should believe this unspecified doctrine in this book filled with contradictions, immoral laws and brutal punishments. I choose not to have "faith" in the absurd.
Maat you keep wanting to change the topic. I have not asked you to believe anything. You stated God could have stated somewhere what He wanted us to believe. All I did was show you that God did indeed do that. What you do with that info is entirely up to you.
Maat you keep wanting to change the topic. I have not asked you to believe anything. You stated God could have stated somewhere what He wanted us to believe. All I did was show you that God did indeed do that. What you do with that info is entirely up to you.
Ooops, sorry I guess I did kind of ask you, but it was for the benifit of others to ask themselves. As from my understanding of what you believe has gone from ET, to annhilation to atheism. Of course an atheist would not believe in any of the 3 main doctrines of the early church. That said, you said in another post that you did not know much if anything about the belief in universalism. So as you do not know about it you lump all christian thought into a barbaric view of God. Cannot blame you there, but universalism does not hold to brutal punishments, as you call them. Stick around awhile Maat you might see a totally different view of God, the one we are actually commanded to teach, not the ones you have obviously already rejected.
I haven't researched universalism. I've heard of it, but have not seen the need to understand it since I do not consider the bible of a god.
This thread was more directed at getting Christians to comprehend the sadistic doctrine they believe in. Even if they believe it and intend to maintain their religion, they should at least use enough common sense and reason to see it for what it is, which is sadistic no matter who implements it.
This was my intention too back then, though I didn't want anybody to convert to atheism.
Quote:
Originally Posted by maat55
Hey Christians, if God demanded you sacrifice a child, would you do it?
Would you burn that child to death if God demanded it?
How are you going to be blissful in heaven if one of your loved ones is burning in hell?
According to my experience few Christians are happy with that doctrine if they truly believe it at all, your undertone is not helpfull and if I am correct the same people writing here still have the same views as they had years before - nobody changed his mind, despite all (scriptural) arguments, we discussed these matters over and over again. You might want to check some of my older threads, I'm still interested in your opinion as now an "outsider".
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