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I studied the bible for 3 years in 3 different languages... What did I come up with? These are people trying to explain real world experiences with what they felt spiritually. So What happens after death? Have you met someone who died? Then we can not be sure. However, if you combine science with what you read in the bible then you can only conclude that the energy in you returns to its collective energy. The Son (sun) is our source of energy. Without the Sun (son) we cannot survive. Therefore, it stands to reason that our energy when we are dead will return to it's source.
The first law of thermodynamics supports this: Energy can neither be created nor destroyed; rather, it transforms from one form to another.
Correct, Kat. But what happens to the energy that has already been transformed into the unique "katjonjj-consciousness" energy, (her Spirit)? We know how all the physical energy of our body gets transformed after death, but what about the energy that is already consciousness (Spirit)? What do we know of that can transform consciousness energy into something else??
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This actually supports reincarnation more than other religious views though I don't have any experience in reincarnation (bad life your next is a frog.... kinda thing). However, it makes sense that your bodily energy must go somewhere... annihilation is not a viable option.. neither is ET... universalism may fit but would have to embrace reincarnation.
Not necessarily, Kat. Reincarnation is a carnal-minded view, not a spiritual-minded one. Why a physical body when we are already Spirit (consciousness)? Doesn't an incorruptible spiritual body make more sense?
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Best guess is that when we die our energy goes back to the source to be reused as the creator wishes.
It does, but it joins God's consciousness (after refinement to eliminate the dross, of course).
Maat you keep wanting to change the topic. I have not asked you to believe anything. You stated God could have stated somewhere what He wanted us to believe. All I did was show you that God did indeed do that. What you do with that info is entirely up to you.
My point is that the bible does not present a viable support for this proposed plan. We cannot rely on the bible due to its numerous flaws/contradictions and absurdities. We are left to have faith in a book that does not reflect a perfect higher being. It more reflects an immoral beast.
My point is that the bible does not present a viable support for this proposed plan. We cannot rely on the bible due to its numerous flaws/contradictions and absurdities. We are left to have faith in a book that does not reflect a perfect higher being. It more reflects an immoral beast.
Not all universalist would agree with you here Maat, but a few of us do, you will find out which ones if you stick around. The bible is only a tool to use, it is not the undefiled, infallible word of God. Of course it has contradictions and absurdities in it. A child has a certain view that changes as the child grows in maturity. Thus what the child once believed goes though a change once puberty hits and then adulthood.
What you see in the bible is a growth from a childs view of God to a teens view to full adulthood view of God. Thus Jesus Christ view of God is the only correct view of God, all other views of God recorded in the bible that you read are that of an earlier child/preteen/teen/young adult view of God.
Not all universalist would agree with you here Maat, but a few of us do, you will find out which ones if you stick around. The bible is only a tool to use, it is not the undefiled, infallible word of God. Of course it has contradictions and absurdities in it. A child has a certain view that changes as the child grows in maturity. Thus what the child once believed goes though a change once puberty hits and then adulthood.
What you see in the bible is a growth from a childs view of God to a teens view to full adulthood view of God. Thus Jesus Christ view of God is the only correct view of God, all other views of God recorded in the bible that you read are that of an earlier child/preteen/teen/young adult view of God.
I don't get how you can attach viability to Jesus anymore than anything else in the bible. It is all unviable. I have no more reason to accept anything in the bible than I do Harry Potter, Zeus or other.
IMO, Christianity is nothing more than a faith cult.
No, he clearly said that a few were findING (the Greek verbs are present tense, not future) it, at that time, and that many were goING through the wide gate to destruction/apōleia . That's why he said that the Son of Man was needing to find the ones who had lost/apollymi their way and save them. That's what your bible says that Jesus said. If you want to think that the Son of Man isn't going to succeed at finding and saving, that's up to you, but your bible also says that God is the savior of ALL men, not a few.
You err, Jesus was talking about when Gods kingdom enters and judgement comes. Look at the world--99% live for now--they must fit in with this world that Jesus taught to be no part of. Those who are no part of this world that actually listened to Jesus do not fit in.
God did his part to try to save all men--he requires them to repent-- they outright refuse=99%--1Cor 6:9-11--Gal 5:19-21--false god worship, lying, etc will NOT enter Gods kingdom--those things are what the majority are practicing daily. From generation to generation, from parent to child--daily are being mislead to partake off the table of demons( 1Cor 10:21) that few even knows exists in this satan ruled system of things. Because he transforms into an angel of light( 2Cor 11:12-15) and uses love, sharing, whatever it takes to make it look good to the mortal heart.
I don't get how you can attach viability to Jesus anymore than anything else in the bible. It is all unviable. I have no more reason to accept anything in the bible than I do Harry Potter, Zeus or other.
IMO, Christianity is nothing more than a faith cult.
And you are entitled to your opinion Maat.
Here is the thing for me.
Eternal torment, annihilation and atheism all have one thing in common. All 3 take away the hope of the WHOLE world.
Atheism has no hope for tomorrow for themselves or the rest of the world.
ET and annihilation take the hope from the whole world and give that hope only to a few.
What I believe is in the hope for the WHOLE world, every last man, woman and child.
God sent His son for the salvation of the whole world and I do not see a God who can fail in that which He proposed to do. A failing God is no God at all.
Eternal torment, annihilation and atheism all have one thing in common. All 3 take away the hope of the WHOLE world.
Atheism has no hope for tomorrow for themselves or the rest of the world.
ET and annihilation take the hope from the whole world and give that hope only to a few.
What I believe is in the hope for the WHOLE world, every last man, woman and child.
God sent His son for the salvation of the whole world and I do not see a God who can fail in that which He proposed to do. A failing God is no God at all.
Because I do not believe in the biblical God/jesus does not mean I have no hope or that I am not happy and content. I still do not know what happens at death. If it is nothing, I won't care anyway.
Are you saying that your faith is a placebo and not built on reason?
Eternal torment, annihilation and atheism all have one thing in common. All 3 take away the hope of the WHOLE world.
Atheism has no hope for tomorrow for themselves or the rest of the world.
ET and annihilation take the hope from the whole world and give that hope only to a few.
What I believe is in the hope for the WHOLE world, every last man, woman and child.
God sent His son for the salvation of the whole world and I do not see a God who can fail in that which He proposed to do. A failing God is no God at all.
At least you're honest enough to admit your belief is based on hope.
Because I do not believe in the biblical God/jesus does not mean I have no hope or that I am not happy and content. I still do not know what happens at death. If it is nothing, I won't care anyway.
Are you saying that your faith is a placebo and not built on reason?
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Originally Posted by TroutDude
At least you're honest enough to admit your belief is based on hope.
That's not enough for some of us.
The 3 greatest messages of the gospel are faith, hope and love. Love being the greatest.
My belief in God is not based on hope, its based on the road I have traveled and personal experiences.
My belief in the resurrection of the dead or an afterlife is based on hope. No one can say otherwise because it has not happened yet.
Hope is a common theme throughout life, everyone has it. Example: every time you get into a car to go on a trip you hope the car will start, and hope that you get to your destination safely. Most don't even realize when hope is around as it is a smooth operator. But just ask anyone who own an old car and the small example I gave should hit home.
Maat you say you are happy and content with there being no afterlife and I am not saying you are not, but for me I would find life a very sad thing not to believe in an afterlife, to think losing a loved one and all that becomes of them is food for the worms. I look at the world around me, all the pain, suffering and loss and without hope in an afterlife for myself this life would be a very very sad existence.
The 3 greatest messages of the gospel are faith, hope and love. Love being the greatest.
My belief in God is not based on hope, its based on the road I have traveled and personal experiences.
The road I have traveled (and common sense) tells me that if the bible is correct that God IS love and is the savior of ALL men, then those who say that they believe the bible is infallible, yet maintain a belief in ET or annihilation, are willfully choosing to ignore that their doctrines are in direct contradiction to those passages, nullifying infallibility. Sadly, in their zeal to maintain their faith in the bible as infallible and inerrant, many Christians, for some reason, choose to give more weight to the OT God than to the newer insights about God that some of the NT authors had.
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My belief in the resurrection of the dead or an afterlife is based on hope. No one can say otherwise because it has not happened yet.
Hope is a common theme throughout life, everyone has it. Example: every time you get into a car to go on a trip you hope the car will start, and hope that you get to your destination safely. Most don't even realize when hope is around as it is a smooth operator. But just ask anyone who own an old car and the small example I gave should hit home.
Maat you say you are happy and content with there being no afterlife and I am not saying you are not, but for me I would find life a very sad thing not to believe in an afterlife, to think losing a loved one and all that becomes of them is food for the worms. I look at the world around me, all the pain, suffering and loss and without hope in an afterlife for myself this life would be a very very sad existence.
No beef with the rest of your post, either. Some people are content with the idea that life ends, and they say that believing such gives them impetus to "live life to the fullest". While I appreciate that attitude in many ways, I find it thoroughly unsatisfactory for myself at times (because my idea of "fullest" and my reality do not always match), and definitely for those who have been dealt life circumstances which make that difficult or nearly impossible. So, my hope is that there is more than just the fleeting time we see in the here and now.
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