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Babies have a universal language, although for the adult(s) it has evolved over time.
Do you think God also dumbfounded humanity with all the various accents/cultures?
No offense, but I am not into curses or cursing for that matter. Shalom
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rbbi1
Well, that's too bad, because G-d does have curses, which began in the garden. Any good gardener is going to kill weeds to keep them from choking out the good seed. But it appears that the liberal humanists feel they're justified by the pride that tells them they are superior to such trivial things as believing Him in all His character facets, not just the ones they like, so I'm sure you've got plenty of company in that.
It says He confused their languages, period. Has nada to do with accents or cultures that developed over time. So common sense, if He was capable of changing the language they spoke with His Spirit/breath, why is it so difficult to accept that He is still capable of giving a language via His Spirit/breath? Peace
Psychological or physical anguish is not one of his facets; it's a human trait, often times imposed by others.
Psychological or physical anguish is not one of his facets; it's a human trait, often times imposed by others.
I think Adam and Eve, Pharoah and his army, Sodom and Gomorrah, the people in the flood, the inhabitants of Jerusalem 70AD (which Jesus prophesied), and hosts of others would disagree with you. Must be incredibly hard to hold on those rose colored glasses in the face of facts. Peace
A blast from the past.....pay special attention to the "power" scriptures....
First of all.....non initial salvation people really have no valid say in the matters of G-d, because it is a kingdom not made with hands that we are born from above into and begin our walk through the courts of the Tabernacle pattern, becoming one with the furniture as we progress. It is SPIRITUAL and those that have not awakened to life in the spiritual realm, are still asleep in the darkness of their own soul, and this is why they are still deaf, dumb, blind and lame.
We meet Him in the outer court realm, this is the realm of babes and babes are washed with pure water. But the spiritual gifts are part of the inner court realm, because the inner court realm was reserved for priests only, and is as in type, the rubbing of the child with salt. Water cleanses, but salt (and the Holy Ghost by analogy) sterilizes and preserves, and also burns like fire. First we are called (outer court), then we are justified (inner court), then the final part of the process is to be glorified. As we have borne the image of the earthly, so too will we bear the image of the heavenly.
Anyone that tried to breach the division between the outer court and the inner court realm of the priesthood, was put to death, which is essentially what happens when we try to approach Him through the works of our own hands. The baptism in the Holy Ghost, which is signified by the inner court realm of the priests, who are busy doing their prescribed duties for this court, comes with an anointing which is to set them apart for service, just like the priests of the original Tabernacle had.
This is the realm of manifestation of healing rain for the transforming of the soul, for we are saved (spirit/outer court), soul (inner court), and body (Holy of Holies). It is a progressive work, and this is the race that Paul talked about being set before us. This race requires the power of the Holy Ghost, for the works of the flesh of men do not qualify. This is why we are told the Holy Ghost does the works, but what works? Even to the saving of our soul, for the priest's job here is to remit sins by laying hands on the heads of the people. And they shall lay hands on the sick and they shall recover. When you see the son of man has the POWER to remit sins (Him IN YOU), then know that the kingdom of G-d has come unto you.
2Kings 17:36 But the LORD, who brought you up out of the land of Egypt with great power and a stretched out arm, him shall ye fear, and him shall ye worship, and to him shall ye do sacrifice.
Hands speak of works, the Holy Ghost is the power part of, He has given us POWER, love and a sound mind. Just as He brought His people/chosen ones out of Egypt (a type of the flesh) with the power of His outstretched arm, so too does He begin to take us out of all the things the flesh has bound us with, by the hand of the Holy Ghost.
He is all about birthing a child, which He showed with them when He brought them through the sea of reeds. What was really happening there, according to His view, was He was birthing a child out of Egypt it's mother, and once the child was born (came through the water), He closed up the womb of Egypt declaring no more children would be birthed through the flesh, for He desired to establish a spiritual kingdom with spiritual sons, once again. In short, He cursed the womb of the flesh, for barrenness is a curse, and so He would not allow the Egyptians to also be "birthed", they became as one stillborn, one who never came out of the womb alive. No more twins with different fathers (Cain and Abel) for Him.
After this, He brought them to Mt. Sinai, which is where the fire was on the mount in pattern, and they received the Word of the Lord, which they rejected even before it came, because the flesh left to itself will always reproduce flesh, as every seed bears fruit after it's own kind, just as it did with Cain, whose father was a murderer from the beginning. But this covenant is different, in that it begins with His law being written on our heart, by the in workings of the Holy Ghost, who is as the hand of G-d separated into the works of His five "fingers", the 5 fold ministry of the works of HIM, not of individuals bearing that title. Note the order of the 3 part scripture and how POWER fits the inner court Tabernacle pattern in the order.
Matt. 6:13
And lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil: For thine is the kingdom, and the power, and the glory, for ever. Amen.
Note how the kingdom of G-d comes....
Mark 9:1 And he said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That there be some of them that stand here, which shall not taste of death, till they have seen the kingdom of God come with POWER.
And just who is this gift of POWER for? Are you called?
Acts 2:39 For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.
Note that they were to stay in Jerusalem until the believers RECEIVED something else....POWER.
Luke 24:49 And, behold, I send the promise of my Father upon you: but tarry ye in the city of Jerusalem, until ye be endued with POWER from on high.
Note below that those that had already received him, to them gave he POWER to BECOME (not is) the sons of G-d. There are babes, young men, and mature sons. The inner court realm gives us the power to begin the growth process, of not staying on the milk of the Word.
John 1:12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:
Now when did that power manifest in those besides the 12?
Acts 1:8 But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you: and ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judaea, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth.
How do believers abound in joy, peace and hope?
Romans 15:13 Now the God of hope fill you with all joy and peace in believing, that ye may abound in hope, through the POWER of the Holy Ghost.
Notice how the gospel is to be preached....
Romans 15:19 THROUGH MIGHTY SIGNS AND WONDERS, BY THE POWER OF the Spirit of G-d; so that from Jerusalem, and round about unto Illyricum, I have fully preached the gospel of Christ.
How is our faith to stand, and what is that power again?
1Cor. 2:5 That your faith should not stand in the wisdom of men, but in the POWER of G-d.
Now what is the kingdom of G-d and how does it come?
1Cor. 4:20 For the kingdom of G-d is not in word, but in POWER.
The "good Seed" is in us, but how is it raised?
1Cor. 15:43 It is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in POWER:
Eph. 1:19 And what is the exceeding greatness of his POWER to us-ward who believe, according to the working of his mighty POWER,
How are we strengthened?
Col. 1:11 Strengthened with all might, according to his glorious POWER, unto all patience and longsuffering with joyfulness;
Do you understand that you receive upon YOUR HEAD what He shed forth that was seen and heard? That at this point, you are baptized into His Spirit AS THE HOLY GHOST and He becomes your head? And that if you have THIS SPIRIT, that raised Him from the dead, then He will also quicken your mortal bodies?
Col. 2:10 And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and POWER:
And what is it also for?
Acts 4:33 And with great POWER gave the apostles WITNESS OF THE RESURECTION OF THE LORD Jesus: and great grace was upon them all.
The choice is plain...
2Tim. 3:5 Having a form of godliness, but DENYING THE POWER thereof: from such turn away.
Forgot to add....FORBID NOT TO SPEAK IN TONGUES....Peace
To me, the "test" of tongues is whether it makes the individual more humble and more loving. Unfortunately, most of it, particularly in churches themselves, appears to be a "prideful" thing. I don't know what it is---it just isn't from Jesus if the individual doesn't have love for others as their foremost Christian value.
My grandmother, the humblest woman I've ever known, prayed in tongues at home late in the evenings. I never heard her utter a word in tongues in her Pentecostal church. I do not dismiss it. What I do, is look at the fruit that those tongues bring. If it brings out pride about their gift or bragging about special biblical knowledge, then it doesn't come from God. For the Adversary does his best to copy anything that comes from God.
Quote:
For if I pray in a tongue, my spirit prays, but my mind is unfruitful. So what shall I do? I will pray with my spirit, but I will also pray with my understanding; I will sing with my spirit, but I will also sing with my understanding.
I Cor 14:14-15
Prayer in tongues should not be dismissed, BUT---By their fruit, you shall know them.
To me, the "test" of tongues is whether it makes the individual more humble and more loving. Unfortunately, most of it, particularly in churches themselves, appears to be a "prideful" thing. I don't know what it is---it just isn't from Jesus if the individual doesn't have love for others as their foremost Christian value.
My grandmother, the humblest woman I've ever known, prayed in tongues at home late in the evenings. I never heard her utter a word in tongues in her Pentecostal church. I do not dismiss it. What I do, is look at the fruit that those tongues bring. If it brings out pride about their gift or bragging about special biblical knowledge, then it doesn't come from God. For the Adversary does his best to copy anything that comes from God.
I Cor 14:14-15
Prayer in tongues should not be dismissed, BUT---By their fruit, you shall know them.
And that fruit is not proclaiming how loving YOU ARE and measuring yourself against others, it is the fruit of laying down your life for someone else, BEGINNING with the Lord G-d, which is why it says NO GREATER LOVE has any man than this.
Refusal to lay down a prideful self image, reputation among men, and seeking after respect of persons, rather than take on the "stigma" that the ignorance of others has placed on those that are obedient to allow the Spirit to speak through them in tongues, is not fulfilling loving G-d with all your HEART, your soul and your strength.
What the ignorance has achieved, is to prevent people from receiving all the blessings of G-d by instilling fear in them instead of faith, so that many are so afraid of receiving the wrong spirit (forgetting if you ask for an egg...ect.), that they neglect to receive the right one and live powerless, faithless (without faith it is impossible to please Him) lives so that when the storms come, their house is built on sand. Peace
Translation: Forbid not for one to speak in one's native language . . .
If 'languages' replaced the word 'tongues' in the Bible then we would not have all of this support for 'gibberish'.
Do you think before you post? Do you really think that was necessary for Paul to write about, IF that was what it was all about? You stretch incredibility to past the breaking point to accommodate your error. Peace
Psychological or physical anguish is not one of his facets; it's a human trait, often times imposed by others.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rbbi1
I think Adam and Eve, Pharoah and his army, Sodom and Gomorrah, the people in the flood, the inhabitants of Jerusalem 70AD (which Jesus prophesied), and hosts of others would disagree with you. Must be incredibly hard to hold on those rose colored glasses in the face of facts. Peace
You forgot the husband and wife who lied. And the 42 children which were killed by two bears for calling a prophet, "baldy!" How ridiculous is that? And you talk about having common sense? Apparently, you didn't attend the funeral when it died.
Translation: Forbid not for one to speak in one's native language . . .
If 'languages' replaced the word 'tongues' in the Bible then we would not have all of this support for 'gibberish'.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rbbi1
Do you think before you post?
Oh, indeed I do. I wouldn't involve myself in any debate if I didn't have a fair degree of knowledge on the subject under my belt. The CORRECT definition of 'tongues' as per scripture is ...'languages'. Moreover, it's 'languages' that are of this WORLD!
Strong's Concordance states:
glóssa: the tongue, a language
Original Word: γλῶσσα, ης, ἡ
Part of Speech: Noun, Feminine
Transliteration: glóssa
Phonetic Spelling: (gloce-sah')
Short Definition: the tongue, a language, nation
Definition: the tongue, a language, a nation (usually distinguished by their speech).
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rbbi1
Do you really think that was necessary for Paul to write about, IF that was what it was all about?
It really irks you that I'm taking the wind out of your pious sails, doesn't it, Rbbi1? You come back at me persistently with the typical brag-rant of all the 'tongue-speaking' phonies that YOU and THEY have this infilling of the Holy Spirit and I don't. It's a put down. "I'm favored by God and you're not" is basically what you're saying. And, all I'm doing is setting the record straight according to scripture. 'Tongues' is just another word for 'foreign languages'. That's it! What you and others have done is to take the term 'tongues' and given it an exaggerated 'mystical beat-up' (insert 'Twilight Zone' theme) that was never intended.
I've already mentioned that Paul is clearly beside himself having to deal with the rabble of the many foreign languages being spoken at the same time within the Church of Corinth that was UNIQUE to that particular church! NOWHERE ELSE in Paul's writings are 'tongues' even mentioned ...ONLY to the Church of Corinth! Ancient Corinth was the hub of commercial and foreign trade ...hence the many languages spoken. And, it's here that Paul uses a measure of hyperbole to try to get his message across for those who are speaking umpteen languages all at once. Paul is telling everyone to SHUT UP AND LISTEN!
Paul to the congregation: "For crying out loud, you rowdy bunch might just as well be speaking in the language of angels as far as the others who don't understand you are concerned! Just quieten down, all of you. If any of you wish to speak in your native language then do it one at a time and only then if there is someone here who can interpret in a language that we can ALL understand. Got it?"
One more time, NOWHERE ELSE in Paul's letters to the various churches are 'tongues' - angelic or otherwise - spoken of. Why is that? The answer is that no such disorderly conduct involving foreign languages was going on in any other church but the one in Corinth! This was a 'one time' thing!
Folks, please ...learn to distinguish between 'straight talk' and hyperbole! Otherwise it can get you into all manner of strife.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rbbi1
You stretch incredibility to past the breaking point to accommodate your error. Peace
The typical yadda yadda of someone being called out for accommodating a false doctrine which came out of about a half dozen or so EXAGGERATED words! By the way, don't get mad at me ...blame Paul for having misled you!~
Oh, indeed I do. I wouldn't involve myself in any debate if I didn't have a fair degree of knowledge on the subject under my belt. The CORRECT definition of 'tongues' as per scripture is ...'languages'. Moreover, it's 'languages' that are of this WORLD!
Strong's Concordance states:
glóssa: the tongue, a language
Original Word: γλῶσσα, ης, ἡ
Part of Speech: Noun, Feminine
Transliteration: glóssa
Phonetic Spelling: (gloce-sah')
Short Definition: the tongue, a language, nation
Definition: the tongue, a language, a nation (usually distinguished by their speech).
It really irks you that I'm taking the wind out of your pious sails, doesn't it, Rbbi1? You come back at me persistently with the typical brag-rant of all the 'tongue-speaking' phonies that YOU and THEY have this infilling of the Holy Spirit and I don't. It's a put down. "I'm favored by God and you're not" is basically what you're saying. And, all I'm doing is setting the record straight according to scripture. 'Tongues' is just another word for 'foreign languages'. That's it! What you and others have done is to take the term 'tongues' and given it an exaggerated 'mystical beat-up' (insert 'Twilight Zone' theme) that was never intended.
I've already mentioned that Paul is clearly beside himself having to deal with the rabble of the many foreign languages being spoken at the same time within the Church of Corinth that was UNIQUE to that particular church! NOWHERE ELSE in Paul's writings are 'tongues' even mentioned ...ONLY to the Church of Corinth! Ancient Corinth was the hub of commercial and foreign trade ...hence the many languages spoken. And, it's here that Paul uses a measure of hyperbole to try to get his message across for those who are speaking umpteen languages all at once. Paul is telling everyone to SHUT UP AND LISTEN!
Paul to the congregation: "For crying out loud, you rowdy bunch might just as well be speaking in the language of angels as far as the others who don't understand you are concerned! Just quieten down, all of you. If any of you wish to speak in your native language then do it one at a time and only then if there is someone here who can interpret in a language that we can ALL understand. Got it?"
One more time, NOWHERE ELSE in Paul's letters to the various churches are 'tongues' - angelic or otherwise - spoken of. Why is that? The answer is that no such disorderly conduct involving foreign languages was going on in any other church but the one in Corinth! This was a 'one time' thing!
Folks, please ...learn to distinguish between 'straight talk' and hyperbole! Otherwise it can get you into all manner of strife.
The typical yadda yadda of someone being called out for accommodating a false doctrine which came out of about a half dozen or so EXAGGERATED words! By the way, don't get mad at me ...blame Paul for having misled you!~
This is so typical of a weak position, in your case non-existent; attack the poster and ignore a mass of scriptures to the contrary of your error. But that's what happen when you pride yourself on being too "smart" and too "special" to fall for such "ignorance" as the plain scriptures, of which I listed about 20 in SEVERAL books, not just Corinthians, which you ignored.
As for taking the "wind out of my sails", do you really think this bothers me? I EXPECT it, as the wheat and the tares are raised up together. But the giants, they are meat for us.
Saying we are Spirit filled is not a brag, it's a FACT, and if you would HUMBLE yourself to receive (G-d resists the proud) you too could be filled with something besides the hot air of your own erroneous opinions.
And saying it's a language, as if that negates the principle, is ridiculous as a reason for being disobedient. OF COURSE, it's a language, just not of this world, thus Paul contrasting it by calling it the "tongues of angels", because it has a heavenly origin, as do angels. Peace
Last edited by Rbbi1; 05-13-2017 at 10:34 AM..
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You stretch incredibility to past the breaking point to accommodate your error. Peace
