Rules Governing The Gift Of Tongues (Lutheran, presbyterian, belief, priest)
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Well, one of my main points is that THERE IS NOT 'a mass of scripture' that elude to 'tongue-speaking'. Quite the contrary, in fact! I don't know how many times I can say this before it sinks in, but YOUR brand of 'tongue speaking' is confined to the Church of Corinth as far as scripture goes. And, you seem not to be aware of the abuse of 'just about everything' that was applicable to THAT church and THAT city! Or, you DO know but rather prefer to turn a blind eye and pretend that these things were not happening just to protect your own narcissistic brag-rant, i.e. "I, Rbbi1, am filled with the Holy Spirit and don't you forget it!" As for those 20 or so scriptures that you presented from several books other than Corinthians ...they were ALL red herrings and had NOTHING to do with the topic at hand. THAT is why I ignored them.
How about we just address those two pieces of hyperbole (from whence YOUR version of 'tongue-speaking' comes from) as found in Corinthians ...??
Oh, I'm sure that my comment of 'taking the wind out of your sails' would not bother you. You believe that you have an infilling of the Holy Spirit and are therefore immune to such comments from 'non-Spirit-filled plebs' such as me. But "I" felt honest in saying it. I believe you cite elsewhere that one of the biggest charlatans ever to set foot on Planet Earth (Benny Hinn) is also 'Spirit-filled' so it's not difficult to see how easily influenced and misled you are.
There is no cause for opinion or hot air when one SERIOUSLY evaluates the recorded-in-scripture statements made by Paul and the exaggerated language (or hyperbole) that he uses to make his point to his rowdy congregation that they are doing everything wrong. On occasions in the past I've heard very similar 'goings on' in some Pentecostal churches. It's like a circus and one's brain should SURELY instinctively click in and tell one that something is terribly amiss here!
Again ...'baloney' for the reasons previously given! Let us concentrate on Corinthians and that piece of hyperbole from Paul, "the tongues of angels" because THIS is where the charismatics formed their false doctrine ...from just FOUR WORDS from the ENTIRE BIBLE ...in the first place! Show me any other scripture where "the tongues of angels" is mentioned or even alluded to.
Saying it don't make it so.....again.....pay attention.....
First of all.....non initial salvation people really have no valid say in the matters of G-d, because it is a kingdom not made with hands that we are born from above into and begin our walk through the courts of the Tabernacle pattern, becoming one with the furniture as we progress. It is SPIRITUAL and those that have not awakened to life in the spiritual realm, are still asleep in the darkness of their own soul, and this is why they are still deaf, dumb, blind and lame.
We meet Him in the outer court realm, this is the realm of babes and babes are washed with pure water. But the spiritual gifts are part of the inner court realm, because the inner court realm was reserved for priests only, and is as in type, the rubbing of the child with salt. Water cleanses, but salt (and the Holy Ghost by analogy) sterilizes and preserves, and also burns like fire. First we are called (outer court), then we are justified (inner court), then the final part of the process is to be glorified. As we have borne the image of the earthly, so too will we bear the image of the heavenly.
Anyone that tried to breach the division between the outer court and the inner court realm of the priesthood, was put to death, which is essentially what happens when we try to approach Him through the works of our own hands. The baptism in the Holy Ghost, which is signified by the inner court realm of the priests, who are busy doing their prescribed duties for this court, comes with an anointing which is to set them apart for service, just like the priests of the original Tabernacle had.
This is the realm of manifestation of healing rain for the transforming of the soul, for we are saved (spirit/outer court), soul (inner court), and body (Holy of Holies). It is a progressive work, and this is the race that Paul talked about being set before us. This race requires the power of the Holy Ghost, for the works of the flesh of men do not qualify. This is why we are told the Holy Ghost does the works, but what works? Even to the saving of our soul, for the priest's job here is to remit sins by laying hands on the heads of the people. And they shall lay hands on the sick and they shall recover. When you see the son of man has the POWER to remit sins (Him IN YOU), then know that the kingdom of G-d has come unto you.
2Kings 17:36 But the LORD, who brought you up out of the land of Egypt with great power and a stretched out arm, him shall ye fear, and him shall ye worship, and to him shall ye do sacrifice.
Hands speak of works, the Holy Ghost is the power part of, He has given us POWER, love and a sound mind. Just as He brought His people/chosen ones out of Egypt (a type of the flesh) with the power of His outstretched arm, so too does He begin to take us out of all the things the flesh has bound us with, by the hand of the Holy Ghost.
He is all about birthing a child, which He showed with them when He brought them through the sea of reeds. What was really happening there, according to His view, was He was birthing a child out of Egypt it's mother, and once the child was born (came through the water), He closed up the womb of Egypt declaring no more children would be birthed through the flesh, for He desired to establish a spiritual kingdom with spiritual sons, once again. In short, He cursed the womb of the flesh, for barrenness is a curse, and so He would not allow the Egyptians to also be "birthed", they became as one stillborn, one who never came out of the womb alive. No more twins with different fathers (Cain and Abel) for Him.
After this, He brought them to Mt. Sinai, which is where the fire was on the mount in pattern, and they received the Word of the Lord, which they rejected even before it came, because the flesh left to itself will always reproduce flesh, as every seed bears fruit after it's own kind, just as it did with Cain, whose father was a murderer from the beginning. But this covenant is different, in that it begins with His law being written on our heart, by the in workings of the Holy Ghost, who is as the hand of G-d separated into the works of His five "fingers", the 5 fold ministry of the works of HIM, not of individuals bearing that title. Note the order of the 3 part scripture and how POWER fits the inner court Tabernacle pattern in the order.
Matt. 6:13
And lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil: For thine is the kingdom, and the power, and the glory, for ever. Amen.
Note how the kingdom of G-d comes....
Mark 9:1 And he said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That there be some of them that stand here, which shall not taste of death, till they have seen the kingdom of God come with POWER.
And just who is this gift of POWER for? Are you called?
Acts 2:39 For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.
Note that they were to stay in Jerusalem until the believers RECEIVED something else....POWER.
Luke 24:49 And, behold, I send the promise of my Father upon you: but tarry ye in the city of Jerusalem, until ye be endued with POWER from on high.
Note below that those that had already received him, to them gave he POWER to BECOME (not is) the sons of G-d. There are babes, young men, and mature sons. The inner court realm gives us the power to begin the growth process, of not staying on the milk of the Word.
John 1:12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:
Now when did that power manifest in those besides the 12?
Acts 1:8 But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you: and ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judaea, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth.
How do believers abound in joy, peace and hope?
Romans 15:13 Now the God of hope fill you with all joy and peace in believing, that ye may abound in hope, through the POWER of the Holy Ghost.
Notice how the gospel is to be preached....
Romans 15:19 THROUGH MIGHTY SIGNS AND WONDERS, BY THE POWER OF the Spirit of G-d; so that from Jerusalem, and round about unto Illyricum, I have fully preached the gospel of Christ.
How is our faith to stand, and what is that power again?
1Cor. 2:5 That your faith should not stand in the wisdom of men, but in the POWER of G-d.
Now what is the kingdom of G-d and how does it come?
1Cor. 4:20 For the kingdom of G-d is not in word, but in POWER.
The "good Seed" is in us, but how is it raised?
1Cor. 15:43 It is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in POWER:
Eph. 1:19 And what is the exceeding greatness of his POWER to us-ward who believe, according to the working of his mighty POWER,
How are we strengthened?
Col. 1:11 Strengthened with all might, according to his glorious POWER, unto all patience and longsuffering with joyfulness;
Do you understand that you receive upon YOUR HEAD what He shed forth that was seen and heard? That at this point, you are baptized into His Spirit AS THE HOLY GHOST and He becomes your head? And that if you have THIS SPIRIT, that raised Him from the dead, then He will also quicken your mortal bodies?
Col. 2:10 And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and POWER:
And what is it also for?
Acts 4:33 And with great POWER gave the apostles WITNESS OF THE RESURECTION OF THE LORD Jesus: and great grace was upon them all.
The choice is plain...
2Tim. 3:5 Having a form of godliness, but DENYING THE POWER thereof: from such turn away.
Forgot to add....FORBID NOT TO SPEAK IN TONGUES....Peace
The gift of tongues is a legitimate expression of spiritual ecstacy during the worship service. However, after 50 years of this sort of thing, I'm still undecided about its veracity.
I have experienced tongues myself and have been in worship services where it seemed to be properly used. On the other hand, I've seen nothing but abuse and misuse of it most of the time in many many places. It is a rare occasion when tongues and interpretations are implemented according to Biblical principle. Most of the time its a form of diversion away from worship as well as a selfish look-at-me sort of thing. People use it to demonstrate their 'special' blessings and to lord it over the rest of the congregation. (Gee I wish I was as spiritual as that......)
On other occasions the whole thing becomes rowdy. I've heard preachers try to influence a congregation into doing things properly and in order. Immediately after the message the whole mob lasped into unrestrained disorder. If that's the way some choose to celebrate their spiritual hubris that's fine, but I will have nothing to do with it. It is unseemly and out of touch with Holy Spirit order.
The purpose of the Holy Spirit is to cause worship and prayer to focus upon Jesus - NOT upon worshippers who want to prance about and shout their spiritual inebriations for the world to see. Their acts focus upon themselves, not Christ.
That is where we part company.
and that's me, hollering from the choir loft...
Anything can be abused and that's your focus you'll have no problem finding it, but the most important thing is to not quench the Spirit, in yourself or in others. It shows no respect for the Lord whose Spirit it is, and no submission, and is just as bad if not worse as it limits HIM. Peace
It is impossible to reach the higher Zoe kingdom to be able go recline with Abraham, Isaac , and Jacob if you are wealthy. If a person has never really given up everything he owns and has, and even given himself as a servant, it's that he can never know.
You take a guy that owns a ten thousand dollar car and he owns a trailor, he has 5,000 bucks in the bank.
This person goes out and finds a needy person, a very particular needy person that God had already named because of promises.
The person finds his needy guy and he does what God promises and what Jesus promises, he gives up everything, his cash, car, house. As a servant who knows he is a servant, he knows that he really has no right to own anything, and he he also knows who to serve, he says,'' what do I have to do with all these responibilities of worldly things when I was just born a servant?''
Moses was born in the most wealthy of houses.
The Earth wants to flirt, it also wants to serve, and even commanding the spirirts of beasts in your favor, and this is one great difference between Elijah and Elisha,.
Elisha was truly given the Earth after he had left his whole world behind, it wasn't that Elisha called two she bears, it was because the Earth loved Elisha, it had been given to him. He had inherited the Earth, and who can inherit the Earth while they still believe in the works of their hands?
That is Cain.
The disciples gave up lively hoods and husbands and wives sold houses to live like bums?
Is that what Jesus tells us to do?
Why?
''O daughters of Jerusalem, do not seek love until it is time.''
But there is supposed to come a time.
What happens to a person who has given up everything is insanity to the world, but to the person who has given up everything, he laughs because he realises that by giving up everything, he now owns everything.
Before he even asks, it is given.
Benny Hin will never know what it means to own the Earth, he will never realise the spirit of the Earth. When those disciples wiped the dust off their feet as a witness, it is because the Earth is a living and breathing legal witness who will testify of all.
"This person goes out and finds" if he didn't see The Father/ the spirit or the Son doing something , then it is in vain and will be for no profit , even to the one it was given to. works of the flesh are still works of the flesh.
it is a very very hard lesson to learn to see their fingerprints of what they are doing and then follow them.
i'm not saying it is easy either. But it is OUR job to do it all just that way and any failure is our Issues not theirs.
so you can't blame your works done in your flesh on God because they initiated from you apparently as there was no fruit of his presence/ or participation in those deeds. that is not His problem.
It is impossible to reach the higher Zoe kingdom to be able go recline with Abraham, Isaac , and Jacob if you are wealthy. If a person has never really given up everything he owns and has, and even given himself as a servant, it's that he can never know.
You take a guy that owns a ten thousand dollar car and he owns a trailor, he has 5,000 bucks in the bank.
This person goes out and finds a needy person, a very particular needy person that God had already named because of promises.
The person finds his needy guy and he does what God promises and what Jesus promises, he gives up everything, his cash, car, house. As a servant who knows he is a servant, he knows that he really has no right to own anything, and he he also knows who to serve, he says,'' what do I have to do with all these responibilities of worldly things when I was just born a servant?''
Moses was born in the most wealthy of houses.
The Earth wants to flirt, it also wants to serve, and even commanding the spirirts of beasts in your favor, and this is one great difference between Elijah and Elisha,.
Elisha was truly given the Earth after he had left his whole world behind, it wasn't that Elisha called two she bears, it was because the Earth loved Elisha, it had been given to him. He had inherited the Earth, and who can inherit the Earth while they still believe in the works of their hands?
That is Cain.
The disciples gave up lively hoods and husbands and wives sold houses to live like bums?
Is that what Jesus tells us to do?
Why?
''O daughters of Jerusalem, do not seek love until it is time.''
But there is supposed to come a time.
What happens to a person who has given up everything is insanity to the world, but to the person who has given up everything, he laughs because he realises that by giving up everything, he now owns everything.
Before he even asks, it is given.
Benny Hin will never know what it means to own the Earth, he will never realise the spirit of the Earth. When those disciples wiped the dust off their feet as a witness, it is because the Earth is a living and breathing legal witness who will testify of all.
the days of living in the bush are gone Hanni .. the Lord died so he can heal us where we are so that we can function in this world while he is doing it and not just go live under the bridge. that is easier sometimes then doing the grind ..
I believe you can inherit the Earth more ways than just giving away all your goods and living under a bridge someplace, especially if God did not tell you and then he double witnesses that you are to do that.
the days of living in the bush are gone.. the Lord died so he can heal us where we are so that we can function in this world and not just go live under the bridge. that is easier sometimes then doing the grind ..
I believe you can inherit the Earth more ways than just giving away your goods and living under a bridge someplace, especially if God did not tell you and then double witness that you are to do that.
I agree that it is not having physical wealth that is the problem with the relationship with God, it has to do with the motivations of the heart.....
You can be poor and mean spirited.
I believe what is meant by giving up all you have has to do with giving up all your preconceptions and seeking God. That is what Jesus meant when he said FOLLOW him.
Following him is about going into the new covenant which is written in your heart not on stone.
the days of living in the bush are gone Hanni .. the Lord died so he can heal us where we are so that we can function in this world while he is doing it and not just go live under the bridge. that is easier sometimes then doing the grind ..
I believe you can inherit the Earth more ways than just giving away all your goods and living under a bridge someplace, especially if God did not tell you and then he double witnesses that you are to do that.
I work 7 days a week, i didn't mean that a man shouldn't work, I mean that he should be willing to sacrifice all that he owns if he really will put the needs of others before his own needs.
When we run across single mothers or widows, how do we look away so easily, I mean if we really practice putting the needs of others before our own needs. There is living and humble life while studying long and hard. You get a job that allows you to study and work because study is the primary goal.
If you are one of these money preachers or you believe in this stuff, then by all means, you can aquire your grand inheritance in this life, be ambitious and become a king. More than that, you should make people pay you for all your knowledge because you teach them to live like kings, so the good shepherd fleeces the flock and lives like a king, '' See, God must love him, look at his house, his private jet, God has surely blessed him.''
What fool would demand his inheritance in this life?
Each has two lives and you can really demand an inheritence in this life, but this life is so that you can build a treasure for the next life so you may live as true kings live in that you yourself have lived a life of servitude building an inheritance for the next life.
What fool would choose to be a king in this life when it means he will be a servant in the next?
A disciple went into a kingdom where he converted the king himself, being that the king was persuaded by disciples who did miracles, and who actually walked with Jesus, this king decided that the disciple was the smartest man in the kingdom. The king sought to build a mighty and grand palace to gain a name amongst the nations and so he turned his treasure over to the disciple. to build his kingdom.
After some time, the king called the disciple and asked how the plans were going, but the disciple replied,'' the plans are complete and I have built you such a grand palace that all the nations will know who you are, I have taken all the money from your treasury to feed the poor and behold, now you have a treasure in heaven and a palace that cannot be overcome.''
How do the rich remain rich?
How do these preachers live in wealth?
How does someone have a million dollars stored up?
These are too great of mysteries for me to understand.
I work 7 days a week, i didn't mean that a man shouldn't work, I mean that he should be willing to sacrifice all that he owns if he really will put the needs of others before his own needs.
When we run across single mothers or widows, how do we look away so easily, I mean if we really practice putting the needs of others before our own needs. There is living and humble life while studying long and hard. You get a job that allows you to study and work because study is the primary goal.
If you are one of these money preachers or you believe in this stuff, then by all means, you can aquire your grand inheritance in this life, be ambitious and become a king. More than that, you should make people pay you for all your knowledge because you teach them to live like kings, so the good shepherd fleeces the flock and lives like a king, '' See, God must love him, look at his house, his private jet, God has surely blessed him.''
What fool would demand his inheritance in this life?
Each has two lives and you can really demand an inheritence in this life, but this life is so that you can build a treasure for the next life so you may live as true kings live in that you yourself have lived a life of servitude building an inheritance for the next life.
What fool would choose to be a king in this life when it means he will be a servant in the next?
A disciple went into a kingdom where he converted the king himself, being that the king was persuaded by disciples who did miracles, and who actually walked with Jesus, this king decided that the disciple was the smartest man in the kingdom. The king sought to build a mighty and grand palace to gain a name amongst the nations and so he turned his treasure over to the disciple. to build his kingdom.
After some time, the king called the disciple and asked how the plans were going, but the disciple replied,'' the plans are complete and I have built you such a grand palace that all the nations will know who you are, I have taken all the money from your treasury to feed the poor and behold, now you have a treasure in heaven and a palace that cannot be overcome.''
How do the rich remain rich?
How do these preachers live in wealth?
How does someone have a million dollars stored up?
These are too great of mysteries for me to understand.
Yup, it's a paradox alright.
Discernment will not lie.
I love what your saying.
According to some leaders a call for action in community fellowship is in order.
True charity, whether spiritual, or material needs, will *Acts*
And talking about roundin the corners of the feild.
I was looking over some tax brackets.
How is it the taxable income is way below the margin of the minimal cost of living.
Yup, it's a paradox alright.
Discernment will not lie.
I love what your saying.
According to some leaders a call for action in community fellowship is in order.
True charity, whether spiritual, or material needs, will *Acts*
A walk begins in the south where a man is standing in Rueben, and there are 3 names in this camp of the south. He begins bad but he is just beginning his walk and he moves to the East in Judah.
Now he is two merchant sailors who believe in God, and they are in a boat upon the seas that in Zebulun, they witness to the world as ships who are crossing over walls, a sea is a wall.
In Isaachar, and in Zebulun a believer is in a boat within the heart of the sea. Issachar is a man with a million books because he is studying to be a priest. His brother Zebulun the flesh, he is a true merchant of the sea and he makes real money so that he can support his brother Issachar, and when a time should come when Issachar should finally study so long to become a priest, the plan has been followed that the physical should serve the flesh, and whatever you do for money, you do so while in study in an humble life.
When the plan of Issachar and Zebulun being the two merchant sailors in a boat upon the sea is complete, you jump from the boat to become the daily catch.
All those in a boat upon the waters are working toward a goal whether they know or not.
This ancient story about the two merchant sailors in a boat upon the seas is even talked about in the Koran.
That Jesus will ask you under 3 names,'' Do you love me.''
He had to ask 3 times because everyone knew the story of Zebulun, Issachar, and Judah standing in the eastern camp.
The Koran says that Issachar is a man with a million books he never read. The Koran says this because of the well known concepts of Issachar, Zebulun, and Judah as a person in a progressive walk throug Genesis 49
The reason Revelation devotes so much to the two merchant sailors in a boat upon the seas, everyone still in the water will have a problem.
One side of a boat is called Issachar, and the other is Zebulun, and so one side of the boat is for casting for gold, and the other side of the boat is casting for converts, for study to become a priest.
If you cast on the other side of the boat, you switch between Issachar and Zebulun
Last edited by Hannibal Flavius; 05-14-2017 at 04:46 PM..
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