Rules Governing The Gift Of Tongues (Isaac, Jacob, worship, baptism)
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I admitted to myself that NOBODY has the gift of healing, the gift of healing isn't some hit and miss, whole towns were cured, people raised from the dead. If somebody had the Holy spirit with the gift of healing, we would hear and see it on the news EVERY DAY. How many 100's of millions of Christians are there who all claim to have the Holy spirit?
You would think we would know the name of a thousand healers but it would only take one.
Just one, and there is no such person, there are only supposed healers where they take money from thousands of dying people in the hopes of planting a seed and receiving a healing and none of them get a healing.
That doesn't mean God doesn't work miracles, it means that not one person can command a miracle. Not one person can pray for a healing KNOWING that he will get that healing. Not one person can lay hands on a dying child, and if there was just one, wouldn't he be doing this every day, all day long?
There isn't anyone, and speaking in tongues with words of knowledge is certainly not proof of the Holy spirit because it can be done by anyone in any religion.
If this is an example of the power of the Holy spirit given on Pentecost, it sure wouldn't make me believe in Jesus and if I didn't already know the plan of the two rains and how the first is appointed to go away and end as rain does, I may have become an Atheist after I had admitted to myself that I was no prophet, and that I never did have the holy spirit, O, I had a spirit, it was the spirit I was born in, and then later rejected in the hopes of receiving the spirit.
But yeah. nobody can do what those first disciples did and you can't name anyone who has the gift of healing.
If this is proof of the Holy spirit, then I am in the wrong religion.
Yes, I can, but you think he's a charlatan. It's Benny Hinn. So did Oral Roberts, Smith Wigglesworth, and others. He has the gift of healing, and I've met others who G-d uses this way to heal, though it may not be the actual gift of healing, we are told the elders are to pray for people to be healed, as well. Will you cut that out of the Bible as well?
As for not one person praying for a healing KNOWING he will get that healing, yes you can. I have numerous times, because He told me what He was going to do. It doesn't take that much faith to believe what He personally tells you; after all, if He wasn't going to do it, He wouldn't have told you. And no, you wouldn't be doing it every day, because once again, the HOLY GHOST does the works, they are not subject to you, and if they are, then the gifts are not from Him.
Since sin and healing are related, would you expect everyone you come into contact with to be set free from all sin immediately? If not, why not? By the same token, neither will you or anyone else be able to be used to heal EVERYONE in any given place. Jesus didn't either, in Jerusalem.
Speaking in tongues with words of knowledge can only be counterfeited in other religions. The gift of healing is not associated with the prophet, who has the speaking gifts. It is associated with apostles primarily. Which, if you realize that the 5 fold is STILL HIM, as a function of the description of His works, again no man gets the glory unless they take it unto themselves, which many have done.
There is former rain, and latter rain, but BOTH that "they" are calling that is really the former rain, because they were unaware that there are 2 days (2000) years of the in-part Pentecost realm to walk out. The latter rain is yet to come, and it will not be in-part. Peace
look at benny hinns website.... he is selling stuff and has made himself rich off the sheep, read revelation 18 and see what happens to those who profit from religion.
look at benny hinns website.... he is selling stuff and has made himself rich off the sheep, read revelation 18 and see what happens to those who profit from religion.
meerkat if you have a 1000 more than me in the bank or in your retirement fund , does that make me more righteous than you?
the problems with the church/ religion of REV 12 has little to do with money.
as bad of sins are committed by the poor churches as the rich churches.
it is just different sins.
in the same way not everyone in his true church is virgins! what they are is purely devoted to him and not whoring with false religion and shamanism ' aka magic righteousness and other pagan influences and all that has squat to do with how much money is donated to them but instead has to do with how they use it . and so no one will know a rich church from a poor church , except by how much they are helping in the community ( which government and leftist hate by the way and want all money to be taken from all churches and "given"( at the threat of IRS and jail ) to the government to distribute .
look at benny hinns website.... he is selling stuff and has made himself rich off the sheep, read revelation 18 and see what happens to those who profit from religion.
And my point is, he is still G-d's anointed, still manifests the gifts, though it is the in-part realm and NO ONE is perfected yet. I'm not saying he won't reap from any wrongdoing in G-D's eyes, in fact he will reap more so, because to whom much is given much is expected. This is why we're to pray for the leaders, whatever and whoever they are, because they will reap all the more. Peace
I was once the great and almighty prophet, I was always the guy who interpreted tongues. Somebody would burst out in tongues and I would interpret. I have given at least 200 words of knowledge and none of them failed to make people cry. I have stood up in the middle of a service and given words of knowledge where the entire church broke down and got on their knees, and all of this was vanity.
Christianity has a preconceived idea of what a prophet is supposed to do but their designs and ideas come from their own imaginations and all of this is to serve one cause, and that cause is vanity.
I know that what I have said may look like I am trying to insult you, but I have only been talking about what the next step is, and what is true by sheer design and that truth is that Elijah must go all the way to death once his spirit has come. Maybe many people get the spirit of Elijah and never die, but for whatever reason, the spirit of Elijah comes on a person and we are seeing more and more of this in these days.
The spirit of Elijah only goes out to the descendants of the ten lost tribes of Israel who are gentile. The spirit that comes on a gentile is one of hunger and thirst for the 7 feasts of Jesus and to come back with respect to the laws of Moses so that the hearts of the children turn back to the hearts of the fathers.
Elijah went to the evil kingdom of Ahab and Jezebel where they too claimed to be the real Israel. We are shown these drunkards of Ephraim reeling from the NEW WINE because their separation from the Torah gave them a holy spirit by which they became drunk and ALL of them were prophets. THEY ALL had a prophesy, and they all felt the spirit as they were mocking Elisha.
Those lost sheep of Israel turned to Paganism and they had the same feasts that Christians do today, and God wiped them out for this until Jesus came and Gentiles began converting Judaism.
One has to ask themselves,'' Is Judaism and Christianity the same religion?''
Rbb1 Has been seen speaking of the 7 feasts of Jesus and the Levitical priesthood in a favorable manner, and she has even come back with respect to the Torah, to Moses, the servant of God and his laws.
WHY?
Because at some point, she received a spirit which started bringing her back unti she now speaks in favor of keeping the 7 feasts of Jesus INSTEAD of Christmas and Easter.
Where do the rest of us stand?
I stand in Judaism, and this is a complete conversion to Judaism after admitting to myself that Judaism and Christianity were not the same religion.
How many Christians in here will stand up by your side for speaking of the beauty found in the feasts, in Temple designs, and the comings and goings of the temple?
Should you be in the Christian forum speaking about Jewish festivals?
Which is it?
Judaism or Christianity?
If Elijah has come to give you a hunger to come back with respect of the Torah, would you recognize this spirit and what it has come to do?
Elijah goes out to all the false prophets who also feel their spirit, who also prophesy, those sons of the prophets also prophesied and they were born and raised keeping pagan feasts and proclaiming,'' These are your gods O Israel.
Elijah goes out to gentiles who used to be Israel but are now gentiles, and he goes in like a gangbuster telling them that he knows God, but he is not willing to go all the way to death himself.
The entire mission of Elijah and Elisha is to bring gentiles converting to the ways of Jerusalem, back to the hearts of David that the two might become one.
The entire design is that the spirit of Elijah does go into Gentiles and he has now come to you, he is speaking to you as a Gentile because you are a gentile.
I suppose a man can only speak from experience, and my experience was death. Few people in the position that I was in would have given up the power that I commanded. People followed me as if I were Elijah himself, but I learned the plan, and it comes to a person like me when he has to say,'' I am no prophet.''
Everyone who thinks themselves to be a prophet will be ashamed that they ever prophesied BECAUSE, this is the natural order of things.
I look back on myself and my vanity and all those words of knowledge and I am completely ashamed, I am ashamed because I walked in that spirit so long and I refused to give it up because what is more glorious than prophesying?
Elijah has 42 months walking amongst gentiles to bring them back to Judah and Jerusalem, Elisha went and built a place to dwell amongst those sons of the prophets of Baal, and you can bet that they ended up dying to that spirit when they converted. Elisha and those prophets in Israel were not in the same religion and the drunken vain spirit of Ephraim that I have walked in all my life is not the same as the Holy spirit.
What Christianity cannot do, it tries to invent, word of prophesy is vanity to the one who speaks it, and vanity to the one who receives.
Not one person claiming to have the Holy spirit can do works that the first church did, and that was my turning point.
I was claiming to have the holy spirit and I was changing thousands of lives and seen as a great prophet, but all my glory, and all my famous words of prophesy could not heal a single child.
Is this really all Jesus has?
Really?
That isn't good enough, the New Testament boast some very, very grand ideas about what a person can do when he is filled with the Holy spirit given on Pentecost, and if Christianity is an example of such power, I am sorry, I don't buy it, and I can understand why anyone wouldn't by it. People simply cannot do what the New Testament says they can do if they have the holy spirit and I decided to stop lying to myself.
I also found the plan, and it isn't like this plan is not proven over and over because it started in the garden and has repeated itself throughout time.
John must have his head taken.
Having said that, I am very certain that the spirit of Elijah has come to very many people, but that doesn't mean all of them will seek death when death can be found.
If one were to count the omer, I can see him counting because this is his tradition, but counting the omer in expectation of receiving a spirit isn't possible if the house is already occupied and the owner of the house loves the strong man.
Preparing for the rain of Sukkot is to pray for a rain that you do not have, what would be the point of preparing for the indwelling of a personal, individual spirit when you already have a spirit that is holy and powerful?
I count the omer and pray for the rain because I wait upon the promise knowing that I have not received the rain.
The first rain has ended, and so I wait upon the second rain{spirit}, but who can receive the second rain{spirit} when the first rain{spirit} already consumes the house?
A gift of knowledge?
I cannot boast in any other than Christ for all I've learned.
How else could I have heard follow the lamed?
I cannot boast in any other than Christ for all I've learned.
How could I have heard follow the lamed?
Word Parsed:
לְיִפְתָּח
Parts of Speech: Proper Noun
Root:
לְ + יִפְתָּח
Strong's Number: H3316
Infinitive Definition: Jephthah or Jiphtah = "he
opens" n pr m
1. a son of Gilead and a concubine and
Transliteration:
Oh, indeed I do (THINK before I post). I wouldn't involve myself in any debate if I didn't have a fair degree of knowledge on the subject under my belt. The CORRECT definition of 'tongues' as per scripture is ...'languages'. Moreover, it's 'languages' that are of this WORLD!
Strong's Concordance states:
glóssa: the tongue, a language
Original Word: γλῶσσα, ης, ἡ
Part of Speech: Noun, Feminine
Transliteration: glóssa
Phonetic Spelling: (gloce-sah')
Short Definition: the tongue, a language, nation
Definition: the tongue, a language, a nation (usually distinguished by their speech).
It really irks you that I'm taking the wind out of your pious sails, doesn't it, Rbbi1? You come back at me persistently with the typical brag-rant of all the 'tongue-speaking' phonies that YOU and THEY have this infilling of the Holy Spirit and I don't. It's a put down. "I'm favored by God and you're not" is basically what you're saying. And, all I'm doing is setting the record straight according to scripture. 'Tongues' is just another word for 'foreign languages'. That's it! What you and others have done is to take the term 'tongues' and given it an exaggerated 'mystical beat-up' (insert 'Twilight Zone' theme) that was never intended.
I've already mentioned that Paul is clearly beside himself having to deal with the rabble of the many foreign languages being spoken at the same time within the Church of Corinth that was UNIQUE to that particular church! NOWHERE ELSE in Paul's writings are 'tongues' even mentioned ...ONLY to the Church of Corinth! Ancient Corinth was the hub of commercial and foreign trade ...hence the many languages spoken. And, it's here that Paul uses a measure of hyperbole to try to get his message across for those who are speaking umpteen languages all at once. Paul is telling everyone to SHUT UP AND LISTEN!
Paul to the congregation: "For crying out loud, you rowdy bunch might just as well be speaking in the language of angels as far as the others who don't understand you are concerned! Just quieten down, all of you. If any of you wish to speak in your native language then do it one at a time and only then if there is someone here who can interpret in a language that we can ALL understand. Got it?"
One more time, NOWHERE ELSE in Paul's letters to the various churches are 'tongues' - angelic or otherwise - spoken of. Why is that? The answer is that no such disorderly conduct involving foreign languages was going on in any other church but the one in Corinth! This was a 'one time' thing!
Folks, please ...learn to distinguish between 'straight talk' and hyperbole! Otherwise it can get you into all manner of strife.
The typical yadda yadda of someone being called out for accommodating a false doctrine which came out of about a half dozen or so EXAGGERATED words! By the way, don't get mad at me ...blame Paul for having misled you!~
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rbbi1
This is so typical of a weak position, in your case non-existent; attack the poster and ignore a mass of scriptures to the contrary of your error. But that's what happen when you pride yourself on being too "smart" and too "special" to fall for such "ignorance" as the plain scriptures, of which I listed about 20 in SEVERAL books, not just Corinthians, which you ignored.
Well, one of my main points is that THERE IS NOT 'a mass of scripture' that elude to 'tongue-speaking'. Quite the contrary, in fact! I don't know how many times I can say this before it sinks in, but YOUR brand of 'tongue speaking' is confined to the Church of Corinth as far as scripture goes. And, you seem not to be aware of the abuse of 'just about everything' that was applicable to THAT church and THAT city! Or, you DO know but rather prefer to turn a blind eye and pretend that these things were not happening just to protect your own narcissistic brag-rant, i.e. "I, Rbbi1, am filled with the Holy Spirit and don't you forget it!" As for those 20 or so scriptures that you presented from several books other than Corinthians ...they were ALL red herrings and had NOTHING to do with the topic at hand. THAT is why I ignored them.
How about we just address those two pieces of hyperbole (from whence YOUR version of 'tongue-speaking' comes from) as found in Corinthians ...??
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rbbi1
As for taking the "wind out of my sails", do you really think this bothers me? I EXPECT it, as the wheat and the tares are raised up together. But the giants, they are meat for us.
Oh, I'm sure that my comment of 'taking the wind out of your sails' would not bother you. You believe that you have an infilling of the Holy Spirit and are therefore immune to such comments from 'non-Spirit-filled plebs' such as me. But "I" felt honest in saying it. I believe you cite elsewhere that one of the biggest charlatans ever to set foot on Planet Earth (Benny Hinn) is also 'Spirit-filled' so it's not difficult to see how easily influenced and misled you are.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rbbi1
Saying we are Spirit filled is not a brag, it's a FACT, and if you would HUMBLE yourself to receive (G-d resists the proud) you too could be filled with something besides the hot air of your own erroneous opinions.
There is no cause for opinion or hot air when one SERIOUSLY evaluates the recorded-in-scripture statements made by Paul and the exaggerated language (or hyperbole) that he uses to make his point to his rowdy congregation that they are doing everything wrong. On occasions in the past I've heard very similar 'goings on' in some Pentecostal churches. It's like a circus and one's brain should SURELY instinctively click in and tell one that something is terribly amiss here!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rbbi1
And saying it's a language, as if that negates the principle, is ridiculous as a reason for being disobedient. OF COURSE, it's a language, just not of this world, thus Paul contrasting it by calling it the "tongues of angels", because it has a heavenly origin, as do angels. Peace
Again ...'baloney' for the reasons previously given! Let us concentrate on Corinthians and that piece of hyperbole from Paul, "the tongues of angels" because THIS is where the charismatics formed their false doctrine ...from just FOUR WORDS from the ENTIRE BIBLE ...in the first place! Show me any other scripture where "the tongues of angels" is mentioned or even alluded to.
Word Parsed:
לְיִפְתָּח
Parts of Speech: Proper Noun
Root:
לְ + יִפְתָּח
Strong's Number: H3316
Infinitive Definition: Jephthah or Jiphtah = "he
opens" n pr m
1. a son of Gilead and a concubine and
Transliteration:
Isaiah 28.
He will be a spirit of justice
to the one who sits in judgment,
a source of strength
to those who turn back the battle at the gate.
Yes, I can, but you think he's a charlatan. It's Benny Hinn. So did Oral Roberts, Smith Wigglesworth, and others. He has the gift of healing, and I've met others who G-d uses this way to heal, though it may not be the actual gift of healing, we are told the elders are to pray for people to be healed, as well. Will you cut that out of the Bible as well?
As for not one person praying for a healing KNOWING he will get that healing, yes you can. I have numerous times, because He told me what He was going to do. It doesn't take that much faith to believe what He personally tells you; after all, if He wasn't going to do it, He wouldn't have told you. And no, you wouldn't be doing it every day, because once again, the HOLY GHOST does the works, they are not subject to you, and if they are, then the gifts are not from Him.
Since sin and healing are related, would you expect everyone you come into contact with to be set free from all sin immediately? If not, why not? By the same token, neither will you or anyone else be able to be used to heal EVERYONE in any given place. Jesus didn't either, in Jerusalem.
Speaking in tongues with words of knowledge can only be counterfeited in other religions. The gift of healing is not associated with the prophet, who has the speaking gifts. It is associated with apostles primarily. Which, if you realize that the 5 fold is STILL HIM, as a function of the description of His works, again no man gets the glory unless they take it unto themselves, which many have done.
There is former rain, and latter rain, but BOTH that "they" are calling that is really the former rain, because they were unaware that there are 2 days (2000) years of the in-part Pentecost realm to walk out. The latter rain is yet to come, and it will not be in-part. Peace
It's criminal to name Benny Hinn and Oral Roberts in the same sentence as Smith Wigglesworth. I have no issue with great wealth.... Smith Wigglesworth walked in the light that he had in his day but his supply was God not the Dollar. Namaste
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● 1Cor 14:39 . .Do not forbid speaking in tongues.
That rule applies only to people who actually have the gift of tongues because according to Rom 12:4, 1Cor 12:10-11, 1Cor 12:29-30, and 1Cor 14:5 not everyone does.
/
The gift of tongues is a legitimate expression of spiritual ecstacy during the worship service. However, after 50 years of this sort of thing, I'm still undecided about its veracity.
I have experienced tongues myself and have been in worship services where it seemed to be properly used. On the other hand, I've seen nothing but abuse and misuse of it most of the time in many many places. It is a rare occasion when tongues and interpretations are implemented according to Biblical principle. Most of the time its a form of diversion away from worship as well as a selfish look-at-me sort of thing. People use it to demonstrate their 'special' blessings and to lord it over the rest of the congregation. (Gee I wish I was as spiritual as that......)
On other occasions the whole thing becomes rowdy. I've heard preachers try to influence a congregation into doing things properly and in order. Immediately after the message the whole mob lasped into unrestrained disorder. If that's the way some choose to celebrate their spiritual hubris that's fine, but I will have nothing to do with it. It is unseemly and out of touch with Holy Spirit order.
The purpose of the Holy Spirit is to cause worship and prayer to focus upon Jesus - NOT upon worshippers who want to prance about and shout their spiritual inebriations for the world to see. Their acts focus upon themselves, not Christ.
That is where we part company.
and that's me, hollering from the choir loft...
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