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Vf6cruiser, as I pointed out in post #3, God sent Jonah to Nineveh with a message of repentence. The Ninevites were Gentiles.
I'll add now that Isaiah 56:6-8 speaks of foeigners (Gentiles) joining themselves to the LORD.
In the book of Daniel, King Nebuchadnezzar, a Gentile, came to acknowledge the God of Daniel as a result of God's dealings with him. God gave Nebuchadnezzar a vision in which an angelic watcher gave him a message about the impending discipline coming upon him in which he would become mentally ill for a time and live with the beasts of the field. After he recovered he came to believe in the God of Israel.
Other examples can be given of Gentiles being saved during the age of Israel, but the ones above should suffice.
Salvation, whether for Jew or Gentile has always been by grace, and never through the law. The law was given to Israel to show that no one can keep the law perfectly and therefore can't be saved by the law.
Grace in the Old Testament is expressed in Isaiah 55:1.
Isa. 55:1 "Ho! Every one who thirsts, come to the waters; And you who have no money come, buy and eat. Come, buy wine and milk Without money and without cost.
This is similar to Revelation 22:17.
Rev. 22:17 The Spirit and the bride say, "Come." And let the one who hears say, "Come." And let the one who is thirsty come; let the one who wishes take the water of life without cost.
The Church-age was hidden from and unknown to the Jews during the age of Israel, and was hidden from the angels as well, but while grace is emphasized in this dispensation, God's graciousness was revealed in previous periods of human history. The Church-age was the mystery given to Paul. Not the principle of grace.
Even the ones limping are to be warned.
The Rider on the White Horse
…15And from His mouth proceeds a sharp sword with which to strike down the nations, and He will rule them with an iron scepter. He treads the winepress of the fury of the wrath of God, the Almighty. 16AndHe hasa namewrittenonHisrobeandonHisthigh:Kingof kingsandLordof lords. 17Then I saw an angel standing in the sun, and he cried out in a loud voice to all the birds flying overhead, “Come, gather together for the great supper of God,…
Calling them gentiles is a falsehood. Nineveh repented just as all are called to do.
water and fire.
A peculiar lesson and sign that Jonah was shown. left nor right concerning charity, and to be angered without cause.
Jonah 4King James Version (KJV)
4 But it displeased Jonah exceedingly, and he was very angry.
2 And he prayed unto the Lord, and said, I pray thee, O Lord, was not this my saying, when I was yet in my country? Therefore I fled before unto Tarshish: for I knew that thou art a gracious God, and merciful, slow to anger, and of great kindness, and repentest thee of the evil.
3 Therefore now, O Lord, take, I beseech thee, my life from me; for it is better for me to die than to live.
4 Then said the Lord, Doest thou well to be angry?
5 So Jonah went out of the city, and sat on the east side of the city, and there made him a booth, and sat under it in the shadow, till he might see what would become of the city.
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6 And the Lord God prepared a gourd, and made it to come up over Jonah, that it might be a shadow over his head, to deliver him from his grief. So Jonah was exceeding glad of the gourd.
7 But God prepared a worm when the morning rose the next day, and it smote the gourd that it withered.
8 And it came to pass, when the sun did arise, that God prepared a vehement east wind; and the sun beat upon the head of Jonah, that he fainted, and wished in himself to die, and said, It is better for me to die than to live.
9 And God said to Jonah, Doest thou well to be angry for the gourd? And he said, I do well to be angry, even unto death.
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10 Then said the Lord, Thou hast had pity on the gourd, for the which thou hast not laboured, neither madest it grow; which came up in a night, and perished in a night:
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11 And should not I spare Nineveh, that great city, wherein are more than sixscore thousand persons that cannot discern between their right hand and their left hand; and also much cattle?
Reading from nahum should give clarity on who paid the bride price.
4 And the angel that talked with me came again, and waked me, as a man that is wakened out of his sleep.
2 And said unto me, What seest thou? And I said, I have looked, and behold a candlestick all of gold, with a bowl upon the top of it, and his seven lamps thereon, and seven pipes to the seven lamps, which are upon the top thereof:
3 And two olive trees by it, one upon the right side of the bowl, and the other upon the left side thereof.
4 So I answered and spake to the angel that talked with me, saying, What are these, my lord?
5 Then the angel that talked with me answered and said unto me, Knowest thou not what these be? And I said, No, my lord.
6 Then he answered and spake unto me, saying, This is the word of the Lord unto Zerubbabel, saying, Not by might, nor by power, but by my spirit, saith the Lord of hosts.
7 Who art thou, O great mountain? before Zerubbabel thou shalt become a plain: and he shall bring forth the headstone thereof with shoutings, crying, Grace, grace unto it.
13 And it shall come to pass in that day, that a great tumult from the Lord shall be among them; and they shall lay hold every one on the hand of his neighbour, and his hand shall rise up against the hand of his neighbour.
14 And Judah also shall fight at Jerusalem; and the wealth of all the heathen round about shall be gathered together, gold, and silver, and apparel, in great abundance.
15 And so shall be the plague of the horse, of the mule, of the camel, and of the ass, and of all the beasts that shall be in these tents, as this plague.
16 And it shall come to pass, that every one that is left of all the nations which came against Jerusalem shall even go up from year to year to worship the King, the Lord of hosts, and to keep the feast of tabernacles.
17 And it shall be, that whoso will not come up of all the families of the earth unto Jerusalem to worship the King, the Lord of hosts, even upon them shall be no rain.
18 And if the family of Egypt go not up, and come not, that have no rain; there shall be the plague, wherewith the Lord will smite the heathen that come not up to keep the feast of tabernacles.
19 This shall be the punishment of Egypt, and the punishment of all nations that come not up to keep the feast of tabernacles.
20 In that day shall there be upon the bells of the horses, Holiness Unto The Lord; and the pots in the Lord's house shall be like the bowls before the altar.
21 Yea, every pot in Jerusalem and in Judah shall be holiness unto the Lord of hosts: and all they that sacrifice shall come and take of them, and seethe therein: and in that day there shall be no more the Canaanite in the house of the Lord of hosts.
20 But if I with the finger of God cast out devils, no doubt the kingdom of God is come upon you. 21 When a strong man armed keepeth his palace, his goods are in peace: 22 But when a stronger than he shall come upon him, and overcome him, he taketh from him all his armour wherein he trusted, and divideth his spoils. 23 He that is not with me is against me: and he that gathereth not with me scattereth. 24 When the unclean spirit is gone out of a man, he walketh through dry places, seeking rest; and finding none, he saith, I will return unto my house whence I came out. 25 And when he cometh, he findeth it swept and garnished. 26 Then goeth he, and taketh to him seven other spirits more wicked than himself; and they enter in, and dwell there: and the last state of that man is worse than the first.
Calling them gentiles is a falsehood. [/b] Nineveh repented just as all are called to do.
water and fire.
A peculiar lesson and sign that Jonah was shown. left nor right concerning charity, and to be angered without cause.
[b]
No, calling the Ninevites Gentiles is not a lie. The Assyrian city of Niveveh was a Gentile city. The Ninevites were Gentiles. Repenting didn't make them non-Gentiles. And what were they before God sent Jonah to them? That's right, they were Gentiles, which refutes the claim made by the OP that God had nothing to do with Gentiles while He was dealing with the Israelites, and that there was a time when the Gentiles were out of luck and couldn't be saved during the time of Israel.
No, calling the Ninevites Gentiles is not a lie. The Assyrian city of Niveveh was a Gentile city. The Ninevites were Gentiles. Repenting didn't make them non-Gentiles. And what were they before God sent Jonah to them? That's right, they were Gentiles, which refutes the claim made by the OP that God had nothing to do with Gentiles while He was dealing with the Israelites, and that there was a time when the Gentiles were out of luck and couldn't be saved during the time of Israel.
Probably the biggest error in the mainline "churches" of today.....if your Pastor preaches 90% of his sermons out of the four gospels he is giving you a message that was for the Jews under the law 2,000 years ago. Jesus only made TWO exceptions to "Jews only" during His time here, the Canaanite woman and the Roman centurion. Worse yet He emphasized it over and over and His disciples knew better than to bring a Gentile before Him, they knew it because they were also COMMANDED to go only to the Jews as well. I spent years in denominational and non groups as well and never once heard this verse right from the lips of Jesus......
Mat 10:5 These twelve Jesus sent out, instructing them, "Go NOWHERE among the Gentiles and enter no town of the Samaritans,
Mat 10:6 but go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.
You can't get any clearer than that.......now I need a show of hands for all those who sit in a nice building on Sunday how many have heard that before?
Now hidden in the mind of Christ was a revealing of GRACE to the world after the cross, but these disciples and the Jews didn't have a clue about it, because it would be revealed to Paul later. In fact the idea of Jews dealing with Gentiles was forbidden and abhorent to them, they considered pagan gentiles to be dogs and wouldn't even go through their town and had to take an offering to the Temple and be considered unclean for a short term.
Jesus told everybody plainly why He was there....
Mat 15:23 But he did not answer her a word. And his disciples came and begged him, saying, "Send her away, for she is crying out after us."
Mat 15:24 He answered, "I was sent only to the lost sheep of the house of Israel."
So some of you should be asking your Pastors why he is delivering messages week after week intended for Jews under the law and worshiping at the Temple and making sacrifices of bulls and goats, when we do none of that here today, nor should we.
It was actually even worse for Gentiles during that time.....they didn't know God and couldn't be saved during the time of Israel.....and Paul points this out later...............
Eph 2:11 Therefore remember that at one time you Gentiles in the flesh, called "the uncircumcision" by what is called the circumcision, which is made in the flesh by hands—
Eph 2:12 remember that you were at that time separated from Christ, alienated from the commonwealth of Israel and strangers to the covenants of promise, having no hope and WITHOUT God in the world.
So there was a time when Gentiles were out of luck, not today however where the whole world can freely accept Jesus and be saved by one gospel of grace...........do some investigating on your own and see if all this is true, your eternal life may just depend on it..........
So if you're sitting in church thinking you have to obey the law and maybe give a nod to grace when you fail, you are not only not saved but under a curse............
Gal 3:10 For all who rely on works of the law are under a curse; for it is written, "Cursed be everyone who does not abide by all things written in the Book of the Law, and do them."
Gal 3:11 Now it is evident that no one is justified before God by the law, for "The righteous shall live by faith."
I am wondering why you left out Jesus' command found at Matthew 24:14; Matthew 28:18-20 to expand Jesus' work of Luke 4:43 to include ALL nations.
Also, gospel writer Luke wrote about Jesus at Acts 1:8 to take Jesus' work everywhere on Earth.
I am wondering why you left out Jesus' command found at Matthew 24:14; Matthew 28:18-20 to expand Jesus' work of Luke 4:43 to include ALL nations.
Also, gospel writer Luke wrote about Jesus at Acts 1:8 to take Jesus' work everywhere on Earth.
Hosea 2 20I will even betroth thee unto me in faithfulness: and thou shalt know the LORD. 21And it shall come to pass in that day, I will hear, saith the LORD, I will hear the heavens, and they shall hear the earth; 22And the earth shall hear the corn, and the wine, and the oil; and they shall hear Jezreel. 23And I will sow her unto me in the earth; and I will have mercy upon her that had not obtained mercy; and I will say to them which were not my people, Thou art my people; and they shall say, Thou art my God.
I don't know what others are talking about, but the facts are these.
God wiped out the ten tribes because they rejected the feasts of Jerusalem, and he took those ten tribes and SEEDED them into ALL NATIONS.
NOW, any gentile can come repenting to claim the promise given to the ten tribes to come repenting of their paganism. They become CO HEIRS with Jews in Judaism, ANY Gentile can become Ephraim but sadly, not many do anymore.
God seeded the ten tribes into the nations BECAUSE they adopted the same pagan feasts that Christianity adopted, because they rejected the ways of Jerusalem as Christianity.
Jesus only brings a covenant for Judah and Ephraim and those first Gentile believers WERE Ephraim, but not any more, now they went back to their former pagan ways that killed them in the first place.
Paul is explaining this over and over, that Gentiles are only grafted through the promise of Ephraim's ten tribes BUT ONLY IF they come repenting and convert to the worship system of God to become co heirs with Jews.
If you are not Co-Heirs with Jews in support of Jerusalem and the feasts of Christ, then you have heard a different truth, you are teaching a different gospel, because if you don't consider yourself in the company of Jews, you are not a co heir, you are not Israel because you choose to remain a gentile, and this cannot be done.
It is easy to come under the covenant of Judah and Ephraim, but nobody can force you to repent of your pagan ways, your pagan Sabbaths, your disrespect for the Torah and your hatred for Jews.
I say this in general to Christians.
COME, Come repenting as EPHRAIM MUST, if a gentile is to become Ephraim, and if he wont become Ephraim, he has no covenant, the covenant is only for Ephraim and Judah and Ephraim is every gentile coming to bind themselves with Jews and to love the commandments, and THEY MUST STOP PAGANISM, AND THEY MUST WILLINGLY REPENT FOR THEIR PAGANISM THAT HAS NOT ONLY KILLED THEIR BROTHER JUDAH, BUT THEY THEMSELVES, AS THEY REMAIN LOST.
Thanks. The following quote is from an article by C. I. Scofield.
LAW AND GRACE BY C. I. SCOFIELD
It is not, of course, meant that there was no law before Moses, any more than that there was no grace and truth before Jesus Christ. The forbidding to Adam of the fruit of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil (Gen. 2:17) was law, and surely grace was most sweetly manifested in the Lord God seeking His sinning creatures and in His clothing them with coats of skins (Gen. 3:21)-a beautiful type of Christ who “is made unto us . . . righteousness” (1 Cor. 1:30). Law, in the sense of some revelation of God’s will, and grace, in the sense of some revelation of God’s goodness, have always existed, and to this Scripture abundantly testifies. But “the law” most frequently mentioned in Scripture was given by Moses, and from Sinai to Calvary, dominates, characterizes, the time; just as grace dominates or gives its peculiar character to the dispensation which begins at Calvary and has its predicted termination in the rapture of the church. [Bolding mine]
Matt Sherro in the article 'Salvation and Dispensationalism,' quotes Charles Ryrie as well as Scofield, and notes that they both taught the same thing.
Dispensationalism has always taught one way of salvation. C. C. Ryrie, 1995: “the basis of salvation in every age is the death [propitiation] of Christ.”[6] C. I. Scofield, 1890: “God’s grace to man is always based on the work accomplished by Christ in His death [propitiation] on the cross.”[7] What Scofield taught in 1890 is exactly what Ryrie taught one hundred years later. Although dispensationalism is accused of teaching a different way of salvation in every dispensation, dispensationalists have always taught the basis for salvation from Adam to the end of the ages is the propitiation made by Christ. [Bolding mine]
But what message? That the Jews were justified by the law, or a mix of grace and law, but now the gentiles receive salvation by grace? I don't think so. Yes there is progressive revelation, yes Gods grace is more fully revealed in Jesus Christ than it was through the symbols and shadows of the Old Testament. But the fact that something is more fully revealed, and to a wider audience, does not mean the core principle of salvation did not exist, or is in any way different. Salvation was through faith in the promised Messiah, and through faith in Gods revelation upto that point. But salvation is and was, and ever will be, by grace through faith, not something we earn because we cannot be justified by the law. It was so before the law came for Abraham, it was the same for David after the law was given, and it is the same for believers today who have the full revelation of Jesus Christ, the Bible makes this very clear.
Romans 3:20 Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.
Galatians 3:8-9 And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, saying, In thee shall all nations be blessed. So then they which be of faith are blessed with faithful Abraham.
Romans 4:5-8 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness. Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works, Saying, Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven, and whose sins are covered. Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin.
No, calling the Ninevites Gentiles is not a lie. The Assyrian city of Niveveh was a Gentile city. The Ninevites were Gentiles. Repenting didn't make them non-Gentiles. And what were they before God sent Jonah to them? That's right, they were Gentiles, which refutes the claim made by the OP that God had nothing to do with Gentiles while He was dealing with the Israelites, and that there was a time when the Gentiles were out of luck and couldn't be saved during the time of Israel.
Jonah was a Gentile and G-d employed five other Gentiles, a total of six Gentile Prophets...
Hosea 2 20I will even betroth thee unto me in faithfulness: and thou shalt know the LORD. 21And it shall come to pass in that day, I will hear, saith the LORD, I will hear the heavens, and they shall hear the earth; 22And the earth shall hear the corn, and the wine, and the oil; and they shall hear Jezreel. 23And I will sow her unto me in the earth; and I will have mercy upon her that had not obtained mercy; and I will say to them which were not my people, Thou art my people; and they shall say, Thou art my God.
I don't know what others are talking about, but the facts are these.
God wiped out the ten tribes because they rejected the feasts of Jerusalem, and he took those ten tribes and SEEDED them into ALL NATIONS.
NOW, any gentile can come repenting to claim the promise given to the ten tribes to come repenting of their paganism. They become CO HEIRS with Jews in Judaism, ANY Gentile can become Ephraim but sadly, not many do anymore.
God seeded the ten tribes into the nations BECAUSE they adopted the same pagan feasts that Christianity adopted, because they rejected the ways of Jerusalem as Christianity.
Jesus only brings a covenant for Judah and Ephraim and those first Gentile believers WERE Ephraim, but not any more, now they went back to their former pagan ways that killed them in the first place.
Paul is explaining this over and over, that Gentiles are only grafted through the promise of Ephraim's ten tribes BUT ONLY IF they come repenting and convert to the worship system of God to become co heirs with Jews.
If you are not Co-Heirs with Jews in support of Jerusalem and the feasts of Christ, then you have heard a different truth, you are teaching a different gospel, because if you don't consider yourself in the company of Jews, you are not a co heir, you are not Israel because you choose to remain a gentile, and this cannot be done.
It is easy to come under the covenant of Judah and Ephraim, but nobody can force you to repent of your pagan ways, your pagan Sabbaths, your disrespect for the Torah and your hatred for Jews.
I say this in general to Christians.
COME, Come repenting as EPHRAIM MUST, if a gentile is to become Ephraim, and if he wont become Ephraim, he has no covenant, the covenant is only for Ephraim and Judah and Ephraim is every gentile coming to bind themselves with Jews and to love the commandments, and THEY MUST STOP PAGANISM, AND THEY MUST WILLINGLY REPENT FOR THEIR PAGANISM THAT HAS NOT ONLY KILLED THEIR BROTHER JUDAH, BUT THEY THEMSELVES, AS THEY REMAIN LOST.
Judah?
The Lord's might is Yd hu.
And for those who forsake The blessing given to a daughter will be blotted out of the book.
Jonah was a Gentile and G-d employed five other Gentiles, a total of six Gentile Prophets...
Wrong,
After six days a man thinks himself a king.
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