Forgiveness, love, belief, deeds...coming Home to Paradise (mystic, God, Christian)
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Yes and no. As soon as a person receives the Spirit, you are clean and are able to be in His presence. You don't necessarily notice that.
You do notice the changes in behavior and the maturing in Christ that can happen when walking in the Spirit.
I was referring to the latter when I asked what your experience has been.
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That's debatable.
Why is that? How can one have God's Spirit within them but not be in God's presence? Are you meaning more along the lines of someone not being aware of being in God's presence? And that is why you say:
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When one leaves the earth, he/she will definitely be in God's presence.
Because you believe that our physical experience often keeps us from that awareness?
I was referring to the latter when I asked what your experience has been.
You didn't ask what my experience has been - you just asked if I had an experience.
The Holy Spirit interacts w/ people. People have the choice to follow or not. If you follow, you change, and you notice it.
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Originally Posted by Pleroo
Why is that? How can one have God's Spirit within them but not be in God's presence? Are you meaning more along the lines of someone not being aware of being in God's presence? And that is why you say:
The same way I can talk to you without being in your presence. Substitute the Holy Spirit for an internet connection.
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Originally Posted by Pleroo
Because you believe that our physical experience often keeps us from that awareness?
Our physical nature keeps us from being in His direct presence.
You didn't ask what my experience has been - you just asked if I had an experience.
No, I assumed you have the experience. I was asking what your experience of that is.
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The Holy Spirit interacts w/ people. People have the choice to follow or not. If you follow, you change, and you notice it.
Yes, I agree. People's experiences are based on their interaction with God's Spirit within them. Of course, I can look around and observe that this is not limited to Christians, but I realize you don't agree with that.
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The same way I can talk to you without being in your presence. Substitute the Holy Spirit for an internet connection.
Okay. Personally, if was a Christian who believed that the Holy Spirit IS God, and is dwelling within you, I'd definitely see that as God's direct presence. But, I can appreciate that you have an expectation of experiencing it more fully in the future.
Yes, I agree. People's experiences are based on their interaction with God's Spirit within them. Of course, I can look around and observe that this is not limited to Christians, but I realize you don't agree with that.
Everybody doesn't have the Holy Spirit (as you say God's Spirit in them). Everyone has their own spirit.
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Originally Posted by Pleroo
Okay. Personally, if was a Christian who believed that the Holy Spirit IS God, and is dwelling within you, I'd definitely see that as God's direct presence. But, I can appreciate that you have an expectation of experiencing it more fully in the future.
Direct presence... picture a married couple... wife is home, husband is deployed military. They are one spirit, but they are apart. They can communicate to each other while apart. When he comes home, they are in direct presence of each other. Kinda what I am referring to....
Everybody doesn't have the Holy Spirit (as you say God's Spirit in them). Everyone has their own spirit.
Like I said, I know you do not agree. But, for me, simple observation shows me that God's Spirit within is not exclusive or limited to Christians.
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Direct presence... picture a married couple... wife is home, husband is deployed military. They are one spirit, but they are apart. They can communicate to each other while apart. When he comes home, they are in direct presence of each other. Kinda what I am referring to....
I understand what you are saying, I just don't see it quite the same way. Potayto, potahto, perhaps.
For me all of this is so simple.
One moment of a heart change, an awakening...and a life of debauchery is dropped and
you are on your way to Heaven and beauty... This is the very Nature of Love.
Agree?
Disagree?
Truth lies in stone.
"But when you ask, you must believe and not doubt, because the one who doubts is like a wave of the sea, blown and tossed by the wind."
And do not think you can say to yourselves, 'We have Abraham as our father.' I tell you that out of these stones God can raise up children for Abraham.
To rise above.
Now is that not a message of baptism in the Holy Spirit.
Such wonders of Faith given in the akedah.
Disagree, sort of. I do agree that one moment can be the beginning. But, as one of our favorite gurus says, being awake isn't like getting a degree, where you finish a course of study and you're done. You can be awake at some moments and not at others, and the thing to do is practice being awake so that it becomes more and more natural. I think that's a good explanation of how it works.
Marvelous response!
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This is the very Nature of Love.
