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I've asked this before, but what does that have to do with the price of tea in China? It's a question from left field that has no bearing whatsoever on whether or not it's a moral act. I've repeatedly stated that we should not mistreat gay people, so that isn't the question, either.
You'd have to ask that person. As I pointed out before, I really don't believer it matters what is actually said, because you and others have demonstrated repeatedly that our answers don't matter to you.
Says the hypocrite who refuses to answer the question as to why the Bible Belt, the area of our nation most infected with “christian” fundamentalism, is more infused with social ills than any other region of the nation. It is an attribute of your god that people suffer more where he is worshipped more.
Now the liberal areas of the nation? Better educated, lower divorce rates, superior healthcare.
Only a fundie is unable to connect the dots. In fact your false cry about me being a racist for saying so is indicative of your own racism. Not one link I provided said a word about race in connection with those social ills. You reached the conclusion because YOU see a connection in that withered soul.
So you are a homophobe who is also a racist in disguise.
Isn't that what this whole thread is about? That people are up in arms because Christians consider homosexual acts to be immoral?
Fact is, no one here has suggested we mistreat anyone. No one here thinks gay people should be harmed, or have their rights taken away. I can't figure out why Christians keep getting attacked on this.
Are you daft? Have dementia? There are multiple posters who advocate for mistreating gay people, even to the point where they think they should be able to refuse service to them. You are one of them, if memory serves. You believe a Christian business owner should be able to discriminate against them, right? Would you say that discrimination is not mistreatment?
Then you have people like this KJoe guy, who is clearly off his meds, but says demeaning and ignorant things about gay people every single day on here.
Trying to put the fundamentalist view here in a nutshell. Out of the 31,102 verses in the bible, there are 6 that are interpreted to make a wholesale condemnation of homosexuality as a sin. These 6 verses are used to deny gay men and women a place not only within the church, but are used to denounce them as unable to be be Christian and bound for hell. To be a proper Christian and to show love is to tell them this repeatedly. To them it's akin to yelling at a child to not touch a hot stove or run in the street before an oncoming car. Even those that aren't motivated to warn them in this manner but in turn accept them as who they are are bound for the same eternal punishment. No look inward to see if this framing of the message has any fruit or has actually ever worked once. But it is required so there is no blood on their hands. "We warned them!"
Seems it is the defining definition of what makes one a "true" Christian from the impostors. The sheep separated from the goats.
Yet God only saw fit to have 0.019% of the bible dedicated to addressing this horrendous plague that sends men and women who not only find themselves with these sexual desires but also anyone that has empathy toward them to an eternal hell. Add the fact that the Son of God, come to earth, the expression of the Father's glory, he spoke on the subject a total of 0.000% in the recorded scripture.
That's being literal with scripture. 0.019% overall and 0% by the earthly incarnation of God.
Seems like something so potentially destructive that would easily land one in the pit of hell for all eternity, God could have had his scribes be a little more clear on the subject? Could have had even the 6 verses more focused on homosexuality as a whole and not in context of idolatry by certain groups of people at a certain point in time where pagan idolatry was rampant and had filtered into the people of God? That he would have at least reminded Jesus to mention it once?
0.019% of the Bible. 6 verses out of 31,102 and none of the 6 verses wholesale condemnation of a people who find themselves in a definite minority.
Yet Fundamentalists would have the whole of the gospel message of Jesus be defined by this.
Are you daft? Have dementia? There are multiple posters who advocate for mistreating gay people, even to the point where they think they should be able to refuse service to them. You are one of them, if memory serves. You believe a Christian business owner should be able to discriminate against them, right? Would you say that discrimination is not mistreatment?
Then you have people like this KJoe guy, who is clearly off his meds, but says demeaning and ignorant things about gay people every single day on here.
Now that's the rub. You define a baker saying he wishes to not participate in a gay wedding ceremony as "mistreating".
Yet...you believe (correctly I might add) that City-Data, Facebook, Twitter, etc all have the right to censor their posters? You don't see any issue with holding those contradicting views? A private business can do what they want.
Trying to put the fundamentalist view here in a nutshell. Out of the 31,102 verses in the bible, there are 6 that are interpreted to make a wholesale condemnation of homosexuality as a sin. These 6 verses are used to deny gay men and women a place not only within the church, but are used to denounce them as unable to be be Christian and bound for hell. To be a proper Christian and to show love is to tell them this repeatedly. To them it's akin to yelling at a child to not touch a hot stove or run in the street before an oncoming car. Even those that aren't motivated to warn them in this manner but in turn accept them as who they are are bound for the same eternal punishment. No look inward to see if this framing of the message has any fruit or has actually ever worked once. But it is required so there is no blood on their hands. "We warned them!"
Seems it is the defining definition of what makes one a "true" Christian from the impostors. The sheep separated from the goats.
Yet God only saw fit to have 0.019% of the bible dedicated to addressing this horrendous plague that sends men and women who not only find themselves with these sexual desires but also anyone that has empathy toward them to an eternal hell. Add the fact that the Son of God, come to earth, the expression of the Father's glory, he spoke on the subject a total of 0.000% in the recorded scripture.
That's being literal with scripture. 0.019% overall and 0% by the earthly incarnation of God.
Seems like something so potentially destructive that would easily land one in the pit of hell for all eternity, God could have had his scribes be a little more clear on the subject? Could have had even the 6 verses more focused on homosexuality as a whole and not in context of idolatry by certain groups of people at a certain point in time where pagan idolatry was rampant and had filtered into the people of God? That he would have at least reminded Jesus to mention it once?
0.019% of the Bible. 6 verses out of 31,102 and none of the 6 verses wholesale condemnation of a people who find themselves in a definite minority.
Yet Fundamentalists would have the whole of the gospel message of Jesus be defined by this.
And the point remains that all you are going on is YOUR interpretation of scripture you claim expresses God's wishes. You are unwilling to address other interpretations or possibilities or even the idea that God doesn't make arbitrary rules that have nothing to do with actual harm incurred.
You are unwilling to discuss the fact that just expressing your unsubstantiated opinion on "sin" causes actual harm to people who are harming no one.
And you claim the right of individuals to cause that harm and to withhold normal services because of their unsubstantiated RELIGIOUS perceptions.
Yes! That's exactly the thing that they won't discuss, what harm is being done. At the end of the day, their argument rests solely on "God said it" because on every other point, there are far better arguments both scripturally and logically. And the "God said it" argument is only selectively applied, because "God said" a lot of things that we ignore or re-contextualize, like "slaves obey your masters" or "women be silent in the churches."
Now that's the rub. You define a baker saying he wishes to not participate in a gay wedding ceremony as "mistreating".
Yet...you believe (correctly I might add) that City-Data, Facebook, Twitter, etc all have the right to censor their posters? You don't see any issue with holding those contradicting views? A private business can do what they want.
You have the freedom to believe whatever it is you believe, but not the right to discriminate against someone buying a product in a bakery that is for sale - based on those beliefs. Let me ask you this, would you discriminate against a married-couple because of their sexual orientation at a resort, hotel or gas station? How about buying the house next door? Or, a new car? Then, let me ask you this, but you would discriminate, when it comes to buying a cake or flowers - before the wedding - predicated on their sexual orientation?
Yes! That's exactly the thing that they won't discuss, what harm is being done.
The fact that your side simply states, without any evidence that us merely holding the moral conviction is wrong and harmful is the issue. That's bigotry to suggest that we are unable to hold a conviction while not acting to harm anyone in any way.
Quote:
At the end of the day, their argument rests solely on "God said it" because on every other point, there are far better arguments both scripturally and logically. And the "God said it" argument is only selectively applied, because "God said" a lot of things that we ignore or re-contextualize, like "slaves obey your masters" or "women be silent in the churches."
Who is saying that? I'm not.
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