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I know people in the ex gay movement. I don't doubt that some have found help there. I don't discredit anyone's testimony.
However it has been proven to NOT be a one size fits all answer to Christians who find themselves in the realm of LGBT. Have you not listened to Geekigurl's heartfelt testimony?
I bring her up because she is not some person on You Tube. She is right here in our little discussion group telling you that she did everything this guy (I am supposing is saying... at work so cannot listen to it right now) is saying but it didn't take. My friend Paul who I have mentioned before. He did all he could do and everything every church in the community told him to do.... for 15 years and was miserable living a double life. God gave him peace with his homosexuality. God gave it to him. I didn't. You didn't. The church didn't. God did. Geeki is saying the same.
Why is that difficult for you to comprehend? God has given these gay people peace within themselves and who they have found themselves to be. Who are you to force them to be something they are not?
Kudos for this guy for finding peace in Christ. What are you going to say if he comes out 5 years later and says he could not ungay himself and is now at peace with being gay? Because I could show several You Tube testimonies of gay Christians in the Ex-Ex-Gay movement saying just that.
Sounds to me like you are discrediting his testimony by suggesting the possibility that he will say he can't "ungay" himself. What is particularly interesting is that this man says he still has same sex attraction, but he doesn't care about that anymore. He finds a relationship with God to be much more gratifying. The reason you say it's not one size fits all is because everyone is on an unique life journey so our experiences are not the same. You face challenges that I have not, and vice versa.
You are basically saying that one's guy's testimony proves nothing yet have no probably using GG to justify your position. We don't know all the circumstances and God is a patient God. It make take years for the right circumstances to happen.
No. I'm not. I honestly don't care what you do in your own home. Just don't expect me to tell you it's good.
But under what circumstances would anyone ever ask you? In all my adult friendships, my approval hasn't come up one way or another regarding this type of thing. I have friends who are in an open relationship-- I personally believe in monogamy--but there's never been a time where they have asked me, or where I have felt it necessary to tell them what I think.
So would it be correct to assume that if a gay couple at your church never asked your opinion, but came to church functions together, you would just treat them like any other couple, or a trans person, you'd just treat like any other? Because I can't see a scenario where someone would say, "BaptistFundie, what do you think of my relationship?"
Sounds to me like you are discrediting his testimony by suggesting the possibility that he will say he can't "ungay" himself. What is particularly interesting is that this man says he still has same sex attraction, but he doesn't care about that anymore. He finds a relationship with God to be much more gratifying. The reason you say it's not one size fits all is because everyone is on an unique life journey so our experiences are not the same. You face challenges that I have not, and vice versa.
You are basically saying that one's guy's testimony proves nothing yet have no probably using GG to justify your position. We don't know all the circumstances and God is a patient God. It make take years for the right circumstances to happen.
So he has just decided to live life celibate and alone, because he believes his version of God will hate him if he doesn't.... Yea, that means he is still gay, Jeff. It must REALLY suck to hate yourself this much, and believe your God does too... It's so sad.
But under what circumstances would anyone ever ask you? In all my adult friendships, my approval hasn't come up one way or another regarding this type of thing. I have friends who are in an open relationship-- I personally believe in monogamy--but there's never been a time where they have asked me, or where I have felt it necessary to tell them what I think.
So would it be correct to assume that if a gay couple at your church never asked your opinion, but came to church functions together, you would just treat them like any other couple, or a trans person, you'd just treat like any other? Because I can't see a scenario where someone would say, "BaptistFundie, what do you think of my relationship?"
There are conditions in BF's scenario to allow gays to worship. They can't be married, sit together, sing in the choir, play an instrument, and oh, God! never ever teach a Sunday School class.
That's BF's idea of "fair."
I'd bet my eye teeth if he belong to a church of 400 or more, at least one is gay and hiding.
But under what circumstances would anyone ever ask you?
If I cared to do the research I'd go back and pull up a bunch of quotes from what others have posted lamenting the "attitude" that I display when I disapprove of homosexuality.
But I realize the internet is not real life. To answer the question, I have worked with and been friends with gay people. One guy in particular, Rick, and I had some great discussions. In the course of working together he came to know I was an Evangelical Christian. I learned he was gay. He knew I didn't approve of homosexuality, I knew he didn't approve of Christianity. We got along great. I considered him a friend. It's possible to disagree on something and remain friends.
On another occasion, I worked with a man from another country. He is gay, and he and I disagreed strongly on politics. But I consider him a friend. But we had some great discussions as we worked. He had some misconceptions about me and my faith, and after getting to know me he realized I wasn't what he thought Christians were all about.
Quote:
In all my adult friendships, my approval hasn't come up one way or another regarding this type of thing. I have friends who are in an open relationship-- I personally believe in monogamy--but there's never been a time where they have asked me, or where I have felt it necessary to tell them what I think.
Ok?
Quote:
So would it be correct to assume that if a gay couple at your church never asked your opinion, but came to church functions together, you would just treat them like any other couple, or a trans person, you'd just treat like any other? Because I can't see a scenario where someone would say, "BaptistFundie, what do you think of my relationship?"
Yes. I would welcome anyone into my church.
Perhaps a good question is, Why don't you play nicely with Christians?
But under what circumstances would anyone ever ask you? In all my adult friendships, my approval hasn't come up one way or another regarding this type of thing. I have friends who are in an open relationship-- I personally believe in monogamy--but there's never been a time where they have asked me, or where I have felt it necessary to tell them what I think.
So would it be correct to assume that if a gay couple at your church never asked your opinion, but came to church functions together, you would just treat them like any other couple, or a trans person, you'd just treat like any other? Because I can't see a scenario where someone would say, "BaptistFundie, what do you think of my relationship?"
Sadly, among the fundamentalists, there seems to be an abundance of judgmental types who seem primarily attracted to their religion because of its opportunity to judge the worthiness of others. They seem to ignore the fact that the originator of their religion, Jesus, specifically told them NOT to judge others and said God is NOT counting sins against us. Their need to judge others is a troubling attribute of fundamentalism.
Sadly, among the fundamentalists, there seems to be an abundance of judgmental types who seem primarily attracted to their religion because of its opportunity to judge the worthiness of others. They seem to ignore the fact that the originator of their religion, Jesus, specifically told them NOT to judge others and said God is NOT counting sins against us. Their need to judge others is a troubling attribute of fundamentalism.
Honestly.....this one almost made diet pepsi come out my nose. Of all people to call someone else judgmental. You're the king of judgmental.
As for Jesus saying not to judge? Did you read the whole passage? You should read the rest of what Jesus said in that. He didn't say don't judge.
Sounds to me like you are discrediting his testimony by suggesting the possibility that he will say he can't "ungay" himself. What is particularly interesting is that this man says he still has same sex attraction, but he doesn't care about that anymore. He finds a relationship with God to be much more gratifying. The reason you say it's not one size fits all is because everyone is on an unique life journey so our experiences are not the same. You face challenges that I have not, and vice versa.
You are basically saying that one's guy's testimony proves nothing yet have no probably using GG to justify your position. We don't know all the circumstances and God is a patient God. It make take years for the right circumstances to happen.
Because his testimony has just as many if not more that run opposite. I have no problem with his testimony. If that is truly where God has him and he is at peace with that decision, then I support him to follow through with it 100%. So I don't mean to discredit it. But it would not surprise me if he did an about face later because there are testimonies just this where many have done so.
There is no denying that there are many, many, many more like him that have been in the ex-gay movement, in the Exodus ministries and have not been able to sustain the facade. To them it is a facade.
Why I mention this as a one size fits all answer. Good for him that it took for him. We can't know his inner workings or how he processed his own sexuality. There are many reasons why someone could leave a gay lifestyle. I am sure some have found themselves for any number of reasons but it wasn't their true identity. Some are obviously bisexual and are compatible sexually either direction. Some are really not wired gay but may have been exposed to gay activity early in age and that is what they thought they were attracted to.
I'm sure there are as many reasons why someone finds himself in the LGBT spectrum as there are individual people in it for whatever reason.
But one size does NOT fit all. Don't use one story to prove that others that haven't been able to walk this guy's walk are immoral or out of touch with God. Geeki is one. My friend Paul is one. There are many, many more and it is NOT YOUR PLACE to tell them they have to follow this guy's walk. They have to follow God and their own walk.
If I cared to do the research I'd go back and pull up a bunch of quotes from what others have posted lamenting the "attitude" that I display when I disapprove of homosexuality.
But I realize the internet is not real life. To answer the question, I have worked with and been friends with gay people. One guy in particular, Rick, and I had some great discussions. In the course of working together he came to know I was an Evangelical Christian. I learned he was gay. He knew I didn't approve of homosexuality, I knew he didn't approve of Christianity. We got along great. I considered him a friend. It's possible to disagree on something and remain friends.
On another occasion, I worked with a man from another country. He is gay, and he and I disagreed strongly on politics. But I consider him a friend. But we had some great discussions as we worked. He had some misconceptions about me and my faith, and after getting to know me he realized I wasn't what he thought Christians were all about.
Ok?
Yes. I would welcome anyone into my church.
Perhaps a good question is, Why don't you play nicely with Christians?
So you and Rick.... one an evangelical Christian and one not a Christian. OR you and Rick, one a heterosexual and one a homosexual. What about Geeki and my friend Paul or many others in that category. Christian first and foremost and exceedingly so.... who also happen to be LGBT. Got any friends like that?
Or are they automatically NOT a Christian because they, somewhere down their list of self indentifiers.... are gay?
So he has just decided to live life celibate and alone, because he believes his version of God will hate him if he doesn't.... Yea, that means he is still gay, Jeff. It must REALLY suck to hate yourself this much, and believe your God does too... It's so sad.
So, I'm gonna ask you Imiss..... Are you drawn toward considering Christianity by the things Jeff and BF and Finn have to say about this issue? And about their take on Christianity in general?
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