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People are asked to leave the church due to sins which they refuse to stop, and/or repent, like a married person having an affair which they refuse to end. It is Biblically correct thing to do, as the Bible explains church discipline in several passages.
You all must have very small churches. And people who get really good at outwardly obeying the rules. I go to a big church with no membership requirements, where no one micromanages people's behavior. No one has ever sat me down and given me a talking to, or preached a sermon focused on the "don'ts" yet after an hour of being in the presence of love, worship, and wisdom, I leave with a desire to grow closer to God. God always sets on my heart something I can do better at. Or that I need to stop doing. Or a direction I need to go in. Who does that? The church elders? A pastor sermonizing me about what I shouldn't be doing? No! God speaking to my heart.
The path of transformation is highly personal, and people go through stages of spiritual maturity, as Paul describes. And something you think needs to be changed might end up being intrinsic to who they are as in LGBT people.
Yet people use their blunt instrument of legalism to hammer people into outward conformity, when it is the gentle voice of God that changes from the inside. It lacks faith in the work of the Spirit and puts it in the work of men. All we can apply from the outside as a church is love and fellowship to draw near to God. I long for the day the church stops being behavior police and starts being a spiritual body.
The passages you have in mind which "explain church discipline" ---you can't generalize an entire policy from those specifics.
You all must have very small churches. And people who get really good at outwardly obeying the rules. I go to a big church with no membership requirements, where no one micromanages people's behavior. No one has ever sat me down and given me a talking to, or preached a sermon focused on the "don'ts" yet after an hour of being in the presence of love, worship, and wisdom, I leave with a desire to grow closer to God. God always sets on my heart something I can do better at. Or that I need to stop doing. Or a direction I need to go in. Who does that? The church elders? A pastor sermonizing me about what I shouldn't be doing? No! God speaking to my heart.
The path of transformation is highly personal, and people go through stages of spiritual maturity, as Paul describes. And something you think needs to be changed might end up being intrinsic to who they are as in LGBT people.
Yet people use their blunt instrument of legalism to hammer people into outward conformity, when it is the gentle voice of God that changes from the inside. It lacks faith in the work of the Spirit and puts it in the work of men. All we can apply from the outside as a church is love and fellowship to draw near to God. I long for the day the church stops being behavior police and starts being a spiritual body.
The passages you have in mind which "explain church discipline" ---you can't generalize an entire policy from those specifics.
I guess your version of Christianity must ignore this verse
"But now I am writing to you that you must not associate with anyone who claims to be a brother or sister but is sexually immoral or greedy, an idolater or slanderer, a drunkard or swindler. Do not even eat with such people."
1 Corinthians 5:11
My version of Christianity doesn't have to pick and choose verses to fit a certain mold. The entire Bible is the Word of God.
You all must have very small churches. And people who get really good at outwardly obeying the rules. I go to a big church with no membership requirements, where no one micromanages people's behavior. No one has ever sat me down and given me a talking to, or preached a sermon focused on the "don'ts" yet after an hour of being in the presence of love, worship, and wisdom, I leave with a desire to grow closer to God. God always sets on my heart something I can do better at. Or that I need to stop doing. Or a direction I need to go in. Who does that? The church elders? A pastor sermonizing me about what I shouldn't be doing? No! God speaking to my heart.
Yes, there are churches where people actually know each other, and they know who is married to who, so if one day a guy starts showing up holding hands with a new woman, while the wife sits alone holding back her tears, people will notice. So, yes the man will be confronted, and he he refuses to correct the situation he will be asked to leave. You might find this unfair, since you believe sins should be condoned, but the truth is that such behavior harms the church family as whole, and it is best to take the Biblical course of action. It is NOT love to allow it to continue. What else does your church condone? Are there people who are visibly drunk and drinking more in the church? Gambling in the church? Do they condone stealing?
Yes, there are churches where people actually know each other, and they know who is married to who, so if one day a guy starts showing up holding hands with a new woman, while the wife sits alone holding back her tears, people will notice. So, yes the man will be confronted, and if he refuses to correct the situation he will be asked to leave. You might find this unfair, since you believe sins should be condoned, but the truth is that such behavior harms the church family as whole, and it is best to take the Biblical course of action. It is NOT love to allow it to continue. What else does your church condone? Are there people who are visibly drunk and drinking more in the church? Gambling in the church? Do they condone stealing?
So, you have married men, sitting in the Church with their girlfriends, while their wife sits nearby crying?
Yes, there are churches where people actually know each other, and they know who is married to who, so if one day a guy starts showing up holding hands with a new woman, while the wife sits alone holding back her tears, people will notice. So, yes the man will be confronted, and he he refuses to correct the situation he will be asked to leave. You might find this unfair, since you believe sins should be condoned, but the truth is that such behavior harms the church family as whole, and it is best to take the Biblical course of action. It is NOT love to allow it to continue. What else does your church condone? Are there people who are visibly drunk and drinking more in the church? Gambling in the church? Do they condone stealing?
Thank God that he saved me from the church and the sin and fault finding it is obsessed with. If there ever was a monkey off my back i am so grateful for it is that.
I guess your version of Christianity must ignore this verse
"But now I am writing to you that you must not associate with anyone who claims to be a brother or sister but is sexually immoral or greedy, an idolater or slanderer, a drunkard or swindler. Do not even eat with such people."
1 Corinthians 5:11
My version of Christianity doesn't have to pick and choose verses to fit a certain mold. The entire Bible is the Word of God.
You should talk to BaptistFundie, apparently he doesn't have a problem being friends with those you condemn, although they could never be a member of his Church. And, then there is Mr, Jarber who would throw people out of the Church with his self-righteous disposition of believing he knows the heart of another. But you exhibit the most prejudice (discriminatory) and hateful attitude of the three. What amazes me the most is that you cannot even see it, were you brought up that way? To despise those who do not see things the same way that you do. Or, is it something you acquired as an adult? Because your version of Christianity really misses the mark.
I guess your version of Christianity must ignore this verse
"But now I am writing to you that you must not associate with anyone who claims to be a brother or sister but is sexually immoral or greedy, an idolater or slanderer, a drunkard or swindler. Do not even eat with such people."
1 Corinthians 5:11
My version of Christianity doesn't have to pick and choose verses to fit a certain mold. The entire Bible is the Word of God.
This was Paul before they told him, Jesus was always in the company of those condemned by the self righteous. The truth is and you know it, he would never have wined and dined with anyone if he made his decision to so based on sin.
Don't people that are living a life less than the median of the group the ones most in need of the strength of the group as whole?
Jeff's mentality is that the worst amongst the flock will infect the others and bring the rest to that level. Is the message that weak that it takes all to the lowest common denominator?
I guess your version of Christianity must ignore this verse
"But now I am writing to you that you must not associate with anyone who claims to be a brother or sister but is sexually immoral or greedy, an idolater or slanderer, a drunkard or swindler. Do not even eat with such people."
1 Corinthians 5:11
My version of Christianity doesn't have to pick and choose verses to fit a certain mold. The entire Bible is the Word of God.
That was the verse I had in mind at the end of my post. I also take the entirety of scripture to interpret scripture. I juxtapose that verse with Jesus eating and drinking with sinners (a very symbolic act for ancient people), and other such verses and themes and arrive at a different view. You want to use that verse for some people, but certainly not others, as most of America would qualify as "greedy" by gospel standards, and you'd have to disfellowship them.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Finn_Jarber
Yes, there are churches where people actually know each other, and they know who is married to who, so if one day a guy starts showing up holding hands with a new woman, while the wife sits alone holding back her tears, people will notice. So, yes the man will be confronted, and he he refuses to correct the situation he will be asked to leave. You might find this unfair, since you believe sins should be condoned, but the truth is that such behavior harms the church family as whole, and it is best to take the Biblical course of action. It is NOT love to allow it to continue. What else does your church condone? Are there people who are visibly drunk and drinking more in the church? Gambling in the church? Do they condone stealing?
My church doesn't "condone" any of the things you mention. That suggestion unfairly maligns people who aren't in favor of behavior- and thought-policing. I'm just saying the entire emphasis is different. And it doesn't degenerate into a swinger's party or a casino or a den of thieves. We're all just regular people walking humbly with our God. The leadership's focus on leading people to an experience of God, the "do's" rather than the "don'ts" actually creates a very decent community who are there for each other. There's lots of other such churches out there.
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