Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Over the past decade, I've increasingly grown in respect for the Orthodox Church, to the point that if I were forced to choose an affiliation it would be the Orthodox Church. The theological writings of the Orthodox are consistently scholarly, sophisticated, nuanced and theologically sound.
"Hate the sin but love the sinner" is a common phrase first attributed to Gandhi and reveals how Christians should approach their neighbor. Who is our neighbor? All mankind! To love the neighbor however, means to walk in truth towards them, to do what is right for them, to affirm what is good and holy on their behalf. This includes not countenancing sin by naming it as something else. No one who follows Christ can sanction the secular sellout to sin in adultery, fornication, gay-lesbian marriage or sexual relationships, polyamorous marriage, and so forth. Gay marriage and any other unblessed sexual activity in thought, word or deed is not the love that Christ extolled. For the Christian, God has revealed His will to us concerning sexual behavior and anyone who champions a rule other than the one revealed to us is not living a life in Christ.
I don't know why this thread has continued as long as it has, but the above quotation captures the essential point. Biblically and theologically, the Christian view of homosexuality is beyond dispute. Efforts to accommodate or even celebrate homosexuality within Christianity, through "creative" interpretation of the Bible passages or otherwise, are doomed to failure. In the words of the above paper, they are efforts to "countenance sin by naming it as something else." Those who do this are diluting their Christianity to conform to the world, precisely as the Bible condemns.
As we see on this thread, the traditional Christian position is not a popular one. Jesus himself made clear that this is to be expected; it's the price of following Jesus. The fact that something so consistently condemned (both secularly and religiously) as homosexuality is now celebrated, and that at least some Christians are joining in the celebration in the name of Christ, is not evidence of "enlightenment" but of the depravity the NT says will characterize the last days.
To be clear, I have no greater issue with homosexuality per se than I do with fornication, adultery, pedophilia and other sexual sins. What I have an issue with is the celebration of sin and the dilution of Christianity. If someone wants to say "Look, I know the Bible condemns homosexuality and this is the Christian doctrine, but I simply reject it in the name of social progress and modern morality," this is at least an honest position. It is, as I have said previously, the position of Dr. William Loader, the leading scholar on ancient sexual practices who acknowledges that Judaism at the time of Jesus condemned both the homosexual orientation and homosexual practices but nevertheless rejects this in the name of what he believes to be enlightened morality.
People of faith and religious leader are called to celebrate the presence of lesbian, gay, bisexual, transgender, and ***** (LGBTQ) people in our congregations, local communities, and society at large. LGBTQ people are our neighbors, our congregants, and our religious leaders. People faith and religious leaders must help to create new understandings of sexual and gender diversity and promote justice for LGBTQ people in all areas of religious and public life.
^^^
Bovine biblical excrement = excuse to hate Others.
That's how it appears to many others, Christian and non, but I do think the people who hold that position genuinely believe what is laid out above, though not often expressed as wordily.
What they don't seem to be able to grasp is that when they are condemning an LGBTQ person, no matter how they pretty it up by grandly pretending to claim that they see it as no worse than other sins, they are saying that those persons themselves are a sin by virtue of their very existence, not because of what they have done. That's far more excremental than a position taken by human beings that a person should only love a person of the opposite gender. A human feeling of repulsion about another human based on who they are cannot possibly come from God.
Anyway, I don't think that they think they are hating Others, but it is the end result. There's no "but" after "Love your neighbor as yourself".
People of faith and religious leader are called to celebrate the presence of lesbian, gay, bisexual, transgender, and ***** (LGBTQ) people in our congregations, local communities, and society at large. LGBTQ people are our neighbors, our congregants, and our religious leaders. People faith and religious leaders must help to create new understandings of sexual and gender diversity and promote justice for LGBTQ people in all areas of religious and public life.
WOW!
I'm not really thrilled with the word "celebrate".
You know, one of the most active members of our church who happened to be gay nixed the idea when someone suggested we put a rainbow on the church sign to let people know everyone was welcome. He said, "It's not a gay church. It's just a church".
I agree. LGBTQ people are our neighbors, congregants, and religious leaders. Let them just be who they are and get on with what needs to be done.
I'm not really thrilled with the word "celebrate".
You know, one of the most active members of our church who happened to be gay nixed the idea when someone suggested we put a rainbow on the church sign to let people know everyone was welcome. He said, "It's not a gay church. It's just a church".
I agree. LGBTQ people are our neighbors, congregants, and religious leaders. Let them just be who they are and get on with what needs to be done.
Yep, I agree on the celebrate bit too
I am a person who thinks everyone has an intrinsic/essential nature that also develops over time with varying circumstances and experiences, and that it’s more about being respectful about any of our differences
That was just something I noticed when I followed Irkle’s link
It’s a difficult thing to bring about change of something that is deeply embedded in any culture, it creates animosity and over-reactions on all sides unfortunately
I am a person who thinks everyone has an intrinsic/essential nature that also develops over time with varying circumstances and experiences, and that it’s more about being respectful about any of our differences
That was just something I noticed when I followed Irkle’s link
It’s a difficult thing to bring about change of something that is deeply embedded in any culture, it creates animosity and over-reactions on all sides unfortunately
Well, it is my hope that having this place for discussion of the subject will open up a dialogue and give food for thought to some. It is the most controversial social topic in Christianity in these times, just as slavery and translation of the Scriptures into "a language plainly understood by the people", and separation of religion and state were in previous times. Spiritual growth is usually accompanied by pain.
To quote Imagine Dragons:
Pain!
You made me a, you made me a believer, believer
Well, it is my hope that having this place for discussion of the subject will open up a dialogue and give food for thought to some. It is the most controversial social topic in Christianity in these times, just as slavery and translation of the Scriptures into "a language plainly understood by the people", and separation of religion and state were in previous times. Spiritual growth is usually accompanied by pain.
To quote Imagine Dragons:
Pain!
You made me a, you made me a believer, believer
I believe it does MQ - it is good to have a place where all sides can be put on the “table” and discussed
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
