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Jesus spoke the universe and everything in it into existence......do any of you want to put on the white shop coat and go up against the Lord on a science quiz? See how well that works out in the oldest book in the Bible......Job.......
Are you a young earth creationist and do you believe that there was a flood which covered all the highest mountains of the entire earth? And do you seriously believe that Adam was made out of the dust of the earth as a fully grown man and that Eve was fashioned out of Adam's side?
Are you a young earth creationist and do you believe that there was a flood which covered all the highest mountains of the entire earth? And do you seriously believe that Adam was made out of the dust of the earth as a fully grown man and that Eve was fashioned out of Adam's side?
Because scientific evidence refutes all of that.
Why don't you trust the revelation of God?
I'm sure science would reject the physical resurrection of Christ as well. Do you believe the scientists or God?
I'm sure science would reject the physical resurrection of Christ as well. Do you believe the scientists or God?
DRob, as I've have tried to make clear when addressing this subject, God did not attempt to change the cosmology of the people who wrote the Bible. Instead, when communicating his word, he met the biblical writers where they were at in terms of their ideas about the world. The Bible does not address scientific matters. It doesn't address the true nature of the universe with regard to how it came to exist other than that God (Yahweh) was behind creation rather than the gods of the other ancient Near East peoples.
The Israelites had been exposed to the beliefs of the Egyptians and the Canaanites, and they needed to know that it was the Hebrew God who created the heavens and the earth, not the Egyptian or Canaanite gods. But the story in Genesis is simply a story to explain that it was Yahweh who is the Creator. The details in the story (six days of creation, Adam being made on the sixth day as a fully grown man, etc.) simply spoke to the Hebrews at a level which they could understand. God met them at their own level of understanding. A parent doesn't attempt to talk to a five year old in the same way that he would talk to another adult. Instead, he tries to talk to the child in ways the child can understand. And this is the case with God communicating with the ancient Hebrews. He met them where they were at in terms of their understanding. Neither the creation or flood stories are literally true or historical, but they do express theological truths.
I've said this before but will say it again . . . some of the earliest geologists were Christians. They wanted and expected to find geological evidence to verify the biblical account of the flood. Instead, what they found was that the geology of the earth did not support the biblical flood account. And they came to accept the evidence.
Today, it is only the extreme fundamentalist who believes that the flood story in Genesis actually happened. It didn't, and anyone who has a fair amount of geological knowledge knows that there is no way a single world wide flood could have shaped the earth's geological features.
One doesn't have to hold a wooden, overly literal view of the creation and flood stories to be faithful to God. And one doesn't have to leave his brain at the door in order to be a faithful Christian.
Are you a young earth creationist and do you believe that there was a flood which covered all the highest mountains of the entire earth? And do you seriously believe that Adam was made out of the dust of the earth as a fully grown man and that Eve was fashioned out of Adam's side?
Because scientific evidence refutes all of that.
The book is to be taken literally unless its clearly not intended that way. An example of symbolism.........
Rev 12:1 And a great sign appeared in heaven: a woman clothed with the sun, with the moon under her feet, and on her head a crown of twelve stars.
Rev 12:2 She was pregnant and was crying out in birth pains and the agony of giving birth.
Clearly a reference to Israel. But every word in the book is to be taken as Holy Spirit inspired, if not then you can go to your nearest scientist and put in whatever you want.
Your mileage may vary but I believe it all 100%.................I don't know a single scientist who would die for me as a sinner.
The book is to be taken literally unless its clearly not intended that way. An example of symbolism.........
Rev 12:1 And a great sign appeared in heaven: a woman clothed with the sun, with the moon under her feet, and on her head a crown of twelve stars.
Rev 12:2 She was pregnant and was crying out in birth pains and the agony of giving birth.
Clearly a reference to Israel. But every word in the book is to be taken as Holy Spirit inspired, if not then you can go to your nearest scientist and put in whatever you want.
Your mileage may vary but I believe it all 100%.................I don't know a single scientist who would die for me as a sinner.
Then you believe that there is a hard dome over a flat earth which is supported by pillars and that the sun, moon and stars are embedded in that hard dome firmament, because that's what the Bible says.
Michael you are the last person I expected to have this conversation with, a hill I would not die on. You in all your studies had to have seen the same verses I have. Jesus said in John..............
Joh 17:14 I have given them your word, and the world has hated them because they are not of the world, just as I am not of the world.
Joh 17:15 I do not ask that you take them out of the world, but that you keep them from the evil one.
Joh 17:16 They are not of the world, just as I am not of the world.
Joh 17:17 Sanctify them in the truth; your word is truth.
The word is truth and Jesus said it and I believe it.............science is feeding us the global warming garbage even after they were caught cooking the books. The warming stuff is UN inspired globalism meant to take us to a one world religion.
I would remind you that you are one of the senior posters on here and well regarded normally, your allegations could easily lead new people astray. I wouldn't want to be standing in front of the Lord trying to explain that away.
Found a wikipedia article on the pillars and perhaps flat earth stuff........NOBODY filled and guided by the Holy Spirit could believe this stuff.........
Michael you are the last person I expected to have this conversation with, a hill I would not die on. You in all your studies had to have seen the same verses I have. Jesus said in John..............
Joh 17:14 I have given them your word, and the world has hated them because they are not of the world, just as I am not of the world.
Joh 17:15 I do not ask that you take them out of the world, but that you keep them from the evil one.
Joh 17:16 They are not of the world, just as I am not of the world.
Joh 17:17 Sanctify them in the truth; your word is truth.
The word is truth and Jesus said it and I believe it.............science is feeding us the global warming garbage even after they were caught cooking the books. The warming stuff is UN inspired globalism meant to take us to a one world religion.
I would remind you that you are one of the senior posters on here and well regarded normally, your allegations could easily lead new people astray. I wouldn't want to be standing in front of the Lord trying to explain that away.
The truth never leads anyone astray. But wrong interpretation of what the Bible says and is and why it says what it says does lead people astray. Taking the creation and flood accounts literally and a failure to understand the Bible in its ANE context does just that.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vf6cruiser
Found a wikipedia article on the pillars and perhaps flat earth stuff........NOBODY filled and guided by the Holy Spirit could believe this stuff.........
The ancient Hebrews believed it as it was part of their culture and cosmology. And the biblical text reflects their beliefs even though they had an incorrect understanding of the cosmos.
The Bible, therefore, in reflecting the ancient Hebrew understanding of the cosmos does not give a correct scientific understanding of the cosmos.
Last edited by Michael Way; 03-15-2021 at 01:24 PM..
DRob, as I've have tried to make clear when addressing this subject, God did not attempt to change the cosmology of the people who wrote the Bible. Instead, when communicating his word, he met the biblical writers where they were at in terms of their ideas about the world. The Bible does not address scientific matters. It doesn't address the true nature of the universe with regard to how it came to exist other than that God (Yahweh) was behind creation rather than the gods of the other ancient Near East peoples.
The Israelites had been exposed to the beliefs of the Egyptians and the Canaanites, and they needed to know that it was the Hebrew God who created the heavens and the earth, not the Egyptian or Canaanite gods. But the story in Genesis is simply a story to explain that it was Yahweh who is the Creator. The details in the story (six days of creation, Adam being made on the sixth day as a fully grown man, etc.) simply spoke to the Hebrews at a level which they could understand. God met them at their own level of understanding. A parent doesn't attempt to talk to a five year old in the same way that he would talk to another adult. Instead, he tries to talk to the child in ways the child can understand. And this is the case with God communicating with the ancient Hebrews. He met them where they were at in terms of their understanding. Neither the creation or flood stories are literally true or historical, but they do express theological truths.
I've said this before but will say it again . . . some of the earliest geologists were Christians. They wanted and expected to find geological evidence to verify the biblical account of the flood. Instead, what they found was that the geology of the earth did not support the biblical flood account. And they came to accept the evidence.
Today, it is only the extreme fundamentalist who believes that the flood story in Genesis actually happened. It didn't, and anyone who has a fair amount of geological knowledge knows that there is no way a single world wide flood could have shaped the earth's geological features.
One doesn't have to hold a wooden, overly literal view of the creation and flood stories to be faithful to God. And one doesn't have to leave his brain at the door in order to be a faithful Christian.
Random comments...
I understand God meeting people where they are... no issues.
I understand the Bible is not a scientific book. However, in what God created there is science behind it. For example...
Job 38:25-30
25 “Who has cleft a channel for the flood, Or a way for the thunderbolt,
26 To bring rain on a land without people, On a desert without a man in it,
27 To satisfy the waste and desolate land And to make the seeds of grass to sprout?
28 “Has the rain a father? Or who has begotten the drops of dew?
29 “From whose womb has come the ice? And the frost of heaven, who has given it birth?
30 “Water becomes hard like stone, And the surface of the deep is imprisoned.
In these verses, certain atmospheric conditions must exist for lightning to occur... and rain to occur... and ice to form. God doesn't say ice forms at 32 degrees... that's how we make sense of what God created. Our "science" just figures out what God created. And just because WE can't figure out what God did doesn't mean that it doesn't exist.
Regarding the flood, God revealed it - not as an exercise in science, but as an actual event that took place. Jesus Christ brings up the flood event in Matthew 24. So if the flood didn't happen, what's Jesus talking about? Peter brings up Noah in 1 Peter 3. What's he talking about if the flood didn't happen?
I understand God meeting people where they are... no issues.
I understand the Bible is not a scientific book. However, in what God created there is science behind it. For example...
Job 38:25-30
25 “Who has cleft a channel for the flood, Or a way for the thunderbolt,
26 To bring rain on a land without people, On a desert without a man in it,
27 To satisfy the waste and desolate land And to make the seeds of grass to sprout?
28 “Has the rain a father? Or who has begotten the drops of dew?
29 “From whose womb has come the ice? And the frost of heaven, who has given it birth?
30 “Water becomes hard like stone, And the surface of the deep is imprisoned.
In these verses, certain atmospheric conditions must exist for lightning to occur... and rain to occur... and ice to form. God doesn't say ice forms at 32 degrees... that's how we make sense of what God created. Our "science" just figures out what God created. And just because WE can't figure out what God did doesn't mean that it doesn't exist.
Regarding the flood, God revealed it - not as an exercise in science, but as an actual event that took place. Jesus Christ brings up the flood event in Matthew 24. So if the flood didn't happen, what's Jesus talking about? Peter brings up Noah in 1 Peter 3. What's he talking about if the flood didn't happen?
A localized flood, as far as the eye could see, not world-wide.
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