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^ I don't recognize Paul, the former hater of Christianity and murderer, and his writings. Any teachings other than from Christ directly will be inferior, and can even be outright flawed. But hey, if you want to compromise by reading and following them. Sounds like they've already led you way off-course. Good luck.
^ I don't recognize Paul, the former murderer and hater of Christianity, and his writings. Any teachings other than from Christ directly will be inferior, and can even be outright flawed. But hey, if you want to compromise with them...
Acts 9:13-16
"Then Ananias answered, Lord, I have heard by many of this man, how much evil he hath done to thy saints at Jerusalem:
And here he hath authority from the chief priests to bind all that call on thy name.
But the Lord said unto him, Go thy way: for he is a chosen vessel unto me, to bear my name before the Gentiles, and kings, and the children of Israel:
For I will shew him how great things he must suffer for my name's sake."
Jesus didn't talk or teach like this; that we're all scum and can't do a damn thing right. Therefore I'll reject it as outside of his teachings. Sure, if you look outside of the Gospels, there's tons of material in the bible (backwards and forwards) where you'll find writings that we're no good. And yet, God created us, and Jesus reminds us of our worth.
Here’s what Jesus taught:
Luke 18
The Parable of the Pharisee and the Tax Collector
9 To some who were confident of their own righteousness and looked down on everyone else, Jesus told this parable: 10 “Two men went up to the temple to pray, one a Pharisee and the other a tax collector. 11 The Pharisee stood by himself and prayed: ‘God, I thank you that I am not like other people—robbers, evildoers, adulterers—or even like this tax collector. 12 I fast twice a week and give a tenth of all I get.’
13 “But the tax collector stood at a distance. He would not even look up to heaven, but beat his breast and said, ‘God, have mercy on me, a sinner.’
14 “I tell you that this man, rather than the other, went home justified before God. For all those who exalt themselves will be humbled, and those who humble themselves will be exalted.”
The key to our salvation is not our worth, but God’s mercy.
All the love being referenced is agape love, Charlie. If you cannot love your neighbor who you can see, how can you love a God you do not see? The second commandment is evidence of the first, just as acting out of agape love is evidence of Faith in Christ.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Charlie24
The point is you can't love God with all your heart, soul and mind.
You can't love your neighbor as yourself.
If you could, Mystic, you wouldn't need Jesus! That is the point to keeping law of any kind.
You can't do it! That is where walking in the Spirit comes in that Paul preached out everywhere he went and they tried to kill him for it.
The first commandment is that walking in the Spirit by giving yourself to God through Christ.
Then the second commandment will begin to take place by His leading.
Trying t do it yourself is called self-righteousness in the scripture. You must give yourself to Christ and let Him do it, or you will never get there, you will not enter into the Kingdom of God.
We CAN choose what and who we TRY to love, Charlie, but we can NOT choose what we truly believe or do not believe. That is WHY we can only come to Christ when the Father calls us, NOT when we choose. So your method of choosing to believe in Christ is impossible.
My method of TRYING to love is possible. It is the TRYING to act out of agape love, NOT our success or failure, that evidences our FAITH in Jesus Christ. Our Faith in him is NOT evidenced by our proclamation of a belief in the "precepts and doctrines of men" about Him which IS NOT in our control.
^ I don't recognize Paul, the former murderer and hater of Christianity, and his writings. Any teachings other than from Christ directly will be inferior, and can even be outright flawed. But hey, if you want to compromise by reading and following them. Sounds like they've already led you way off course...
I like to read and understand things
I believe Paul’s writings were designed to be used by the physical to generate and develop the systems required as a vehicle/vessel
Those systems end up thinking more highly of themselves than they ought
There were specific times ordained for them and then “the judgement”
Individual churches are ok and should keep as simple as possible as primarily places of worship
It’s the hierarchy that has caused most of the problems (not just Christianity’s hierarchy either)
The gospels, especially Johns is of the highest/purest - and resonates most with me
It is where the “centre” is, so to speak
Joh 1:1**In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
Joh 1:2**The same was in the beginning with God.
Joh 1:3**All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.
Joh 1:4**In him was life; and the life was the light of men.
Joh 1:5**And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not.
Joh 1:6**There was a man sent from God, whose name was John.
The key to our salvation is not our worth, but God’s mercy.
Jesus pointed out that we needed him for salvation, but didn't harp on and on about how horrible we are. He mentioned what was necessary for understanding, but then put the focus on moving forward and the future.
The difference is some of these folks here who are stuck in the pre-salvation mode - even after we have been saved - which is perversely bogus. We're perfected in Christ (not perfected in him and still scum).
Jesus pointed out that we needed him for salvation, but didn't harp on and on about how horrible we are. He mentioned what was necessary for understanding, but then put the focus on moving forward and the future.
The difference is some of these folks here who are stuck in the pre-salvation mode - even after we have been saved - which is perversely bogus. We're perfected in Christ (not perfected in him and still scum).
We CAN choose what and who we TRY to love, Charlie, but we can NOT choose what we truly believe or do not believe. That is WHY we can only come to Christ when the Father calls us, NOT when we choose. So your method of choosing to believe in Christ is impossible.
My method of TRYING to love is possible. It is the TRYING to act out of agape love, NOT our success or failure, that evidences our FAITH in Jesus Christ. Our Faith in him is NOT evidenced by our proclamation of a belief in the "precepts and doctrines of men" about Him which IS NOT in our control.
OK, Mystic, do it the way you see fit, but I choose Christ and His way.
Since you don't have a choice, as you say, then good luck, your going to need it!
Jesus pointed out that we needed him for salvation, but didn't harp on and on about how horrible we are. He mentioned what was necessary for understanding, but then put the focus on moving forward and the future.
The difference is some of these folks here who are stuck in the pre-salvation mode - even after we have been saved - which is perversely bogus. We're perfected in Christ (not perfected in him and still scum).
Yes, the parable I posted was pre-salvation.
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