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Here, here. Let's see ... there is a great passage that speaks to this:
Hebrews 1
1 In the past God spoke to our forefathers through the prophets at many times and in various ways, 2 but in these last days he has spoken to us by his Son, whom he appointed heir of all things, and through whom he made the universe.
Quote:
Originally Posted by blue62
Just a thought here before I go to the desert..It really boggles my mind that so many of us believers/christian who believe that the bible is Gods final spoken word to his children yet so many of his children over the 2000 years hence have claimed that God is speaking to them and sending post scripts to the world through them
It is amazing to me that a person can post an entire passage of Scripture in defense of his own position and for the condemnation of another, when in fact, the verse teaches the exact opposite!
Let's REALLY look at 2 Thessalonians 2--in its context--an approach apparently completely foreign to DOTL.
But first of all--there is far more evidence--internal evidence--that the Revelation was written PRIOR to A. D. 70 and the destruction of the Temple and Jerusalem. The actual churches of that time are mentioned, John was shown the things that were in his day to SHORTLY take place because the time was THEN near, the Temple is still standing in chapter 11 (it is NOT some future rebuilt temple!), the kings mentioned fit that historical time frame, John was told not to seal up the words of the prophecy because the time was near for fulfillment, Babylon is equated to that first-century Jerusalem, and Jesus clearly said "Behold, I am coming QUICKLY!" Taking these time indicators at their face value, one must conclude that there is only ONE event in that historical time period that fits the horrendous details of the Revelation--the destruction of Jerusalem and the Temple in A. D. 70!!!
IF the Revelation was written post A. D. 70, it is a very peculiar thing that NOTHING is mentioned within it concerning the destruction of the majestic Temple, the center of Jewish worship and a wonder of the world, and the hundreds of thousands of Jews killed and others taken into captivity throughout the world. Furthermore, where is the mention of Masada and the nearly 1000 Jews who perished there at their own hands to avoid torture by the Romans? Also, IF the Revelation was written around A. D. 95, there is still the time problem. There is still the fact that John was shown those things that were to SHORTLY take place because the time was THEN near. What happened shortly after A. D. 95 that fulfills the things written in the Revelation?
To whom is Second Thessalonians (and First Thessalonians) written? Let's look at the very first verse, DOTL. "Paul, and Silvanus, and Timothy, UNTO the church of THE THESSALONIANS in God, our Father, and the Lord Jesus Christ." This was a letter directed at specific people in a specific historical setting. When YOU write a letter today to someone, is that not also the case? This is not space shuttle science!
Paul goes on to relate to THEM how he thanks God for THEM because of THEIR growing faith and love for one another. Of particular interest is the fact that he mentions THEIR "patience and faith" in all of THEIR persecutions and TRIBULATIONS. Not our persecutions or our tribulations, DOTL! These are real people enduring real tribulation in the FIRST CENTURY A. D. Will you not give them the respect due them in that context before you seek to make everything about us? I love those saints of that day and when I read these accounts, I thank God for His faithfulness in strengthening them in those times. They are our brothers and sisters in Christ! I long to meet them some day. They deserve to be recognized for the examples that they left us! The application that we derive from this and other personal letters comes FIRST and foremost from THEIR lives and THEIR struggles.
Paul goes on to proclaim how God, in His faithfulness to His own, would take vengeance upon those who "troubled" THEM. These days of vengeance are mentioned in Luke 21 ("these are the days of vengeance") and the fulfillment of this vengeance against those very first-century persecutors is spelled out in the Revelation! Paul clearly gives the time frame. His fellow saints were to rest in the Lord along with him and Silvanus and Timothy until the Lord Jesus was "revealed from heaven with his mighty angels." This is the same type of language used in the Olivet Discourse accounts of these same events that were to take place in THAT generation just as Jesus predicted! It all ties together, DOTL!
There is a definite connection between those very first-century saints and the Lord's coming "to be glorified in His saints." Notice that the ones to be affected by this coming are identified with the testimony of Paul and his fellow saints of that day! The time of the punishment is also seen here. It was to be WHEN he would come to be glorified in those very saints of Paul's day! This punishment or judgment was predicted by Jesus in Matthew 16:27, 28--"For the Son of Man is ABOUT TO COME (mello) in the GLORY of His Father WITH HIS ANGELS (same glory and angels of Matthew 24:31 and 2 Thessalonians 1:9, 10), and then He shall reward each according to his works. Verily I say unto you, there are some standing HERE who will not taste of death, till THEY see the Son of Man coming in his kingdom."
It is Paul's prayer that when that time came (the time when Christ came in glory and power with His angels), that THEY would be counted worthy and that the name of the Lord would be glorified in THEM!
During this time frame, which Paul clearly establishes in chapter 1, is the Day of the Lord and the appearance of the Man of Sin! THEY were not to think at that time that it had already come--but it was coming--to THEM! (It is strange, don't you think, DOTL, that they could have believed that the Lord had already come IF they understood His coming the way YOU and other futurists do!) Paul tells THEM what to watch for so that THEY will recognize the time of His coming. There was to be a "man of sin" revealed first. Paul had told THEM of these things before. The context clearly indicates that those of that generation knew what THEN restrained him! The "mystery of iniquity" was already THEN at work. There was something THEN that hindered. But when that THEN-present thing or person was removed, that "wicked one" would be revealed and soon after destroyed by the "coming" of Christ. In the midst of all of this that was coming upon THEM, Paul encourages THEM to "hold fast." When Christ came and the city and the Temple were destroyed, that "man of sin" (whoever he was) was also destroyed! That is the context.
We do err when we hold so fast to some preconceived idea (the physical, visible coming of Christ in literal clouds) that we cannot see the plain teachings of the Scriptures and then must twist them to fit. Futurist may come up with all the "proof" texts they want to try to debunk preterism, but the fact remains, that they have the greater problem--101 time statements that must be ignored or redefined to fit their man-made scheme of things.
So, bring on the proof, DOTL. But I encourage you to first study your "proof" passages that "completely blow preterism out of the Biblical waters" in their CONTEXT and with sound hermeneutical principles. You might find your arsenal soon depleted!
DOTL, great post, sadly I'm sure it won't convince some people.
Thank you, ILNC!! It's so great to see you back on CD! I haven't had a chance to read the latest update on your situation, but praise God you are safe and sound.
I tried to rep you, but you know how it goes......I know my efforts are basically just spinning my wheels, but God gave me the passion to write this for SOMEONE, and I have to keep holding onto that.
God gave me the passion to write this for SOMEONE, and I have to keep holding onto that.
DOTL..... right there friend... is the most important!! The Lord will take care of other's and the rest of the story!!!
Obedience is better than sacrifice.... and to love & honor Him!! Our God is an awesome!!!
God is God. He isn't going to change, nor will end time prophecy events be rearranged, based on anyone's wrong interpretation of scripture. People can believe anything they want to. Only some will be more surprised than others when they see Jesus return.
God is God. He isn't going to change, nor will end time prophecy events be rearranged, based on anyone's wrong interpretation of scripture. People can believe anything they want to. Only some will be more surprised than others when they see Jesus return.
I prefer to look up and not back.
Here's the problem, though, GloryB--YOU won't told to look up. Jesus'
disciple standing right there with Him were told to look up because THEIR salvation was drawing near! (Luke 21).
What wrong interpretation? Where is YOUR interpretation. Opinions, opinions, opinions, yet no biblical substance. DOTL has still not answered my biblical comments. She can't. And neither can you--which is why you don't try.
Preterist
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