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No the difference is in "loved" and "hated" not in "elect" and "non elect". "Hated" is something God does to workers of iniquity even His chosen people. God appears as their enemy to judge their sin in wrath even while He truly loves them.
Here is God "hating" the "beloved of His soul".
Jeremiah 12:7 I have forsaken mine house, I have left mine heritage; I have given the dearly beloved of my soul into the hand of her enemies. 8 Mine heritage is unto me as a lion in the forest; it crieth out against me: therefore have I hated it.
Here is God abhorring His annointed David whom He loved
Psalms 89:38 But thou hast cast off and abhorred, thou hast been wroth with thine anointed.
Notice that when God has "forsaken mine house...into the hand of her enemies" or when God has "cast off" and "been wroth with" those whom H e loves God calls that "hated" or "abhorred".
God's love overrules any "hate" that He has. Jesus taught us to love our enemies and to be perfect as our Heavenly Father is perfect.
God loves His enemies and Jesus taught us to love our enemies, to be perfect as our Heavenly Father is perfect. God bless.
Lule 6: 34 And if you lend to those from whom you hope to receive back, what credit is that to you? For even sinners lend to sinners to receive as much back. 35 But love your enemies, do good, and lend, hoping for nothing in return; and your reward will be great, and you will be sons of the Most High. For He is kind to the unthankful and evil. 36 Therefore be merciful, just as your Father also is merciful.
Matthew 5 43"You have heard that it was said, ')YOU SHALL LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR and hate your enemy.' 44"But I say to you, love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, 45so that you may be sons of your Father who is in heaven; for He causes His sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous. 46"For if you love those who love you, what reward do you have? Do not even the tax collectors do the same? 47"If you greet only your brothers, what more are you doing than others? Do not even the Gentiles do the same? 48"Therefore you are to be perfect, as your heavenly Father is perfect
Colossians 1: 16 for in Him were created the whole (ta panta), the things in the heavens and the things upon the earth – the visible and the unseen, whether thrones, whether lordships, whether sovereignties, whether authorities, the whole (ta panta) through Him and in Him have been created.
Colossians 1:15-20
15. He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation.16. For by Him all things were created, both in the heavens and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities--all things have been created through Him and for Him.17. He is before all things, and in Him all things hold together.18. He is also head of the body, the church; and He is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead, so that He Himself will come to have first place in everything.19. For it was the Father's good pleasure for all the fullness to dwell in Him,20. and through Him to reconcile all things to Himself, having made peace through the blood of His cross; through Him, I say, whether things on earth or things in heaven.
Romans 8:18-22
18. For I consider that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory that is to be revealed to us.19. For the anxious longing of the creation waits eagerly for the revealing of the sons of God.20. For the creation was subjected to futility, not willingly, but because of Him who subjected it, in hope21. that the creation itself also will be set free from its slavery to corruption into the freedom of the glory of the children of God.22. For we know that the whole creation groans and suffers the pains of childbirth together until now.
Ephesians 1: 5-10
"He predestined us to adoption as sons through Jesus Christ to Himself, according to the kind intention of His will, to the praise of the glory of His grace which He freely bestowed on us in the Beloved. In Him we have redemption through His blood, the forgiveness of our trespasses, according to the riches of His grace, which He lavished upon us. In all wisdom and insight He made known to us the mystery of His will, according to His kind intention which He purposed in Him with a view to an administration suitable to the fulness of the times, that is the summing up of all things in Christ, things in the heavens, and things upon the earth."
Psalms 66
4. "All the earth will worship You,
And will sing praises to You;
They will sing praises to Your name." Selah
Psalms 68:18
You have ascended on high, You have led captive Your captives;
You have received gifts among men,
Even among the rebellious also, that the LORD God may dwell there
They will suffer the punishment of eternal destruction away from the presence of the Lord and from His glorious might.
*
0r do you presume on the riches of His kindness and forbearance and patience, not knowing that God's kindness is meant to lead you to repentance? but because of your hard and impenitent heart you are storing up wrath for yourself on the day of wrath when God's righteous judgement will be revealed.
9who shall suffer justice -- destruction age-during -- from the face of the Lord, and from the glory of his strength, 10when He may come to be glorified in his saints, and to be wondered at in all those believing -- because our testimony was believed among you -- in that day; (YLT)
Those who believe in the eventual restoration of all to God through Jesus do not deny God's wrath. We do not believe that eternal punishment, eternal hell is the punishment and we do not believe that this is presented in the scriptures. God bless.
Ephesians 1: 5-10
"He predestined us to adoption as sons through Jesus Christ to Himself, according to the kind intention of His will, to the praise of the glory of His grace which He freely bestowed on us in the Beloved. In Him we have redemption through His blood, the forgiveness of our trespasses, according to the riches of His grace, which He lavished upon us. In all wisdom and insight He made known to us the mystery of His will, according to His kind intention which He purposed in Him with a view to an administration suitable to the fulness of the times, that is the *summing up of all things in Christ, things in the heavens, and things upon the earth."
summing up= anakephalaioomai=gathering together again, reunite under one head as in Eph. 1:10
I know very well what you believe, I think those that love the fire and brimstone preaching have done a great disservice to the gospel, I believe many who preach healing and provision have done a great disservice to the gospel, never-the-less, I believe in healing and provision and I believe in eternal punishment, you keep adding your own little bits on but eternal means eternal and wrath means wrath. um Shani it's gone 4.00am in the U.K. gotta sleep, try to catch up with you tomorrow. God bless you.
You have showed me your twisted understanding..God hates the devil and his seed and Has prepared this for them matt 25:
41Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:
God destroyed Sodom in eternal fire too. Yet God will restore them and remove their captivity.
Ezekiel 16:49 Behold, this was the iniquity of thy sister Sodom, pride, fulness of bread, and abundance of idleness was in her and in her daughters, neither did she strengthen the hand of the poor and needy. 50 And they were haughty, and committed abomination before me: therefore I took them away as I saw good.
Ezekiel 16:52 Thou also, which hast judged thy sisters, bear thine own shame for thy sins that thou hast committed more abominable than they: they are more righteous than thou: yea, be thou confounded also, and bear thy shame, in that thou hast justified thy sisters. 53 When I shall bring again their captivity, the captivity of Sodom and her daughters, and the captivity of Samaria and her daughters, then will I bring again the captivity of thy captives in the midst of them:
Ezekiel 16:54 That thou mayest bear thine own shame, and mayest be confounded in all that thou hast done, in that thou art a comfort unto them. 55 When thy sisters, Sodom and her daughters, shall return to their former estate, and Samaria and her daughters shall return to their former estate, then thou and thy daughters shall return to your former estate.
Ezekiel 16:56 For thy sister Sodom was not mentioned by thy mouth in the day of thy pride, 60 Nevertheless I will remember my covenant with thee in the days of thy youth, and I will establish unto thee an everlasting covenant. 61 Then thou shalt remember thy ways, and be ashamed, when thou shalt receive thy sisters, thine elder and thy younger: and I will give them unto thee for daughters, but not by thy covenant. 62 And I will establish my covenant with thee; and thou shalt know that I am the LORD: 63 That thou mayest remember, and be confounded, and never open thy mouth any more because of thy shame, when I am pacified toward thee for all that thou hast done, saith the Lord GOD.
What does it mean to "bring again their captivity" ? It means to save them.
Ezekiel 39:25 Therefore thus saith the Lord GOD; Now will I bring again the captivity of Jacob, and have mercy upon the whole house of Israel, and will be jealous for my holy name.
Job 42:10 And the LORD turned the captivity of Job, when he prayed for his friends: also the LORD gave Job twice as much as he had before.
Psalms 14:7 Oh that the salvation of Israel were come out of Zion! when the LORD bringeth back the captivity of his people, Jacob shall rejoice, and Israel shall be glad
Zepheniah 3:19 Behold, at that time I will undo all that afflict thee: and I will save her that halteth, and gather her that was driven out; and I will get them praise and fame in every land where they have been put to shame. 20 At that time will I bring you again, even in the time that I gather you: for I will make you a name and a praise among all people of the earth, when I turn back your captivity before your eyes, saith the LORD.
So there you have it. God is going to bring salvation to Sodom whether you hold them in contempt or not.
Ezekiel 16:56 In your proud days you held Sodom in contempt.
Quote:
God Hates the workers of iniquity, it says so right here ps 5:
5The foolish shall not stand in thy sight: thou hatest all workers of iniquity.
Yes that's what I said, God "hates" all workers of iniquity, even His chosen people, the beloved of His soul. Here it is again
Jeremiah 12:7 I have forsaken mine house, I have left mine heritage; I have given the dearly beloved of my soul into the hand of her enemies. 8 Mine heritage is unto me as a lion in the forest; it crieth out against me: therefore have I hated it.
It is you who believe that God only hates some workers of iniquity. God "hated" the beloved of His soul by forsaking them into the hand of her enemies.
Isaiah 54:8 In a little wrath I hid my face from thee for a moment; but with everlasting kindness will I have mercy on thee, saith the LORD thy Redeemer
Hi The Tonnet Linnet, I hope that you have a peaceful and restful night. But to share, some words that have been translated as eternal, forever, everlasting, ect. do not mean this in light of other scriptures.
Sodom's fiery judgment is "eternal" (Jude
7)--until--God "will restore the fortunes of Sodom"
16:53-55).
Israel's "affliction is incurable" (Jer.
30:12)-until--the Lord "will restore health" and heal
her wounds (Jer. 30:17).
The sin of Samaria "is incurable" (Mic. 1:9)-until--
Lord "will restore ... the fortunes of Samaria." (Ez.
16:53).
Ammon is to become a "wasteland forever" and "rise no
more" (Zeph. 2:9, Jer. 25:27 --until--the Lord will
"restore the fortunes of the Ammonites" (Jer. 49:6).
An Ammonite or Moabite is forbidden to enter the
Lord's congregation "forever"-until--the tenth
generation (Deut. 23:3):
Habakkuk tells us of mountains that were
"everlasting", that is -until-- they "were shattered"
Hab. 3 3:6).
The Aaronic Priesthood was to be an "everlasting"
priesthood (Ex. 40:15), that is-until-it was
superceded by the Melchizedek Priesthood (Hebrews
7:14-18).
Many translations of the Bible inform us that God
would dwell in Solomon's Temple "forever" (1 Kings
8:13), that is,--until the Temple was destroyed.
The Law of Moses was to be an "everlasting covenant"
(Leviticus 24:8) yet we read in the New Covenant the
first was "done away" and "abolished" (2 Corinthians
3:11,13), and God "made the first old" (Hebrews 8:13).
The fire for Israel's sin offering (of a ram without
blemish) is never to be put out. It shall be a
"perpetual"-- until-- Christ, the Lamb of God, dies
for our sins. We now have a better covenant
established on better promises (Lev. 6:12-13, Heb.
8:6-13).
God's waves of wrath roll over Jonah
"forever"-until--the Lord delivers him from the large
fish's belly on the third day (Jonah 2:6,10; 1: 17);
Egypt and Elam will "rise no more" (Jer.
25:27)-until--the Lord will "restore the fortunes of
Egypt" (Ez. 29:14) and "restore the fortunes of Elam"
(Jer. 49:39).
"Moab is destroyed" (Jer. 48:4, 42)-until--the Lord
"will restore the fortunes of Moab" (Jer. 48:47).
Israel's judgment lasts "forever"-until--the Spirit is
poured out and God restores it (Isa. 32:13-15).
So, narrow is the way to life and few find it-until--
and His church confiscate the "strong man's" booty,
setting the captives free so God becomes all in all
(Isa. 61, Luke 11:21-22, Matt. 7:13; 16:18, 1 Cor.
15:24-28).
The King James Bible, as well as many others, tells us
that a bondslave was to serve his master "forever"
(Exodus 21:6), that is,--until--his death.
Ref: Tentmaker
As I shared, those who believe in the restoration of all to God through Jesus Christ believe that God displays His wrath, but we don't believe that this translated into eternal hell or eternal suffering, eternal punishment. I hope to speak with you again tomorrow, Lord willing, God bless.
Last edited by ShanaBrown; 06-23-2009 at 09:50 PM..
God destroyed Sodom in eternal fire too. Yet God will restore them and remove their captivity.
Ezekiel 16:49 Behold, this was the iniquity of thy sister Sodom, pride, fulness of bread, and abundance of idleness was in her and in her daughters, neither did she strengthen the hand of the poor and needy. 50 And they were haughty, and committed abomination before me: therefore I took them away as I saw good.
Ezekiel 16:52 Thou also, which hast judged thy sisters, bear thine own shame for thy sins that thou hast committed more abominable than they: they are more righteous than thou: yea, be thou confounded also, and bear thy shame, in that thou hast justified thy sisters. 53 When I shall bring again their captivity, the captivity of Sodom and her daughters, and the captivity of Samaria and her daughters, then will I bring again the captivity of thy captives in the midst of them:
Ezekiel 16:54 That thou mayest bear thine own shame, and mayest be confounded in all that thou hast done, in that thou art a comfort unto them. 55 When thy sisters, Sodom and her daughters, shall return to their former estate, and Samaria and her daughters shall return to their former estate, then thou and thy daughters shall return to your former estate.
Ezekiel 16:56 For thy sister Sodom was not mentioned by thy mouth in the day of thy pride, 60 Nevertheless I will remember my covenant with thee in the days of thy youth, and I will establish unto thee an everlasting covenant. 61 Then thou shalt remember thy ways, and be ashamed, when thou shalt receive thy sisters, thine elder and thy younger: and I will give them unto thee for daughters, but not by thy covenant. 62 And I will establish my covenant with thee; and thou shalt know that I am the LORD: 63 That thou mayest remember, and be confounded, and never open thy mouth any more because of thy shame, when I am pacified toward thee for all that thou hast done, saith the Lord GOD.
What does it mean to "bring again their captivity" ? It means to save them.
Ezekiel 39:25 Therefore thus saith the Lord GOD; Now will I bring again the captivity of Jacob, and have mercy upon the whole house of Israel, and will be jealous for my holy name.
Job 42:10 And the LORD turned the captivity of Job, when he prayed for his friends: also the LORD gave Job twice as much as he had before.
Psalms 14:7 Oh that the salvation of Israel were come out of Zion! when the LORD bringeth back the captivity of his people, Jacob shall rejoice, and Israel shall be glad
Zepheniah 3:19 Behold, at that time I will undo all that afflict thee: and I will save her that halteth, and gather her that was driven out; and I will get them praise and fame in every land where they have been put to shame. 20 At that time will I bring you again, even in the time that I gather you: for I will make you a name and a praise among all people of the earth, when I turn back your captivity before your eyes, saith the LORD.
So there you have it. God is going to bring salvation to Sodom whether you hold them in contempt or not.
Ezekiel 16:56 In your proud days you held Sodom in contempt.
Quote:
God Hates the workers of iniquity, it says so right here ps 5:
5The foolish shall not stand in thy sight: thou hatest all workers of iniquity.
Yes that's what I said, God "hates" all workers of iniquity, even His chosen people, the beloved of His soul. Here it is again
Jeremiah 12:7 I have forsaken mine house, I have left mine heritage; I have given the dearly beloved of my soul into the hand of her enemies. 8 Mine heritage is unto me as a lion in the forest; it crieth out against me: therefore have I hated it.
It is you who believe that God only hates some workers of iniquity. God "hated" the beloved of His soul by forsaking them into the hand of her enemies.
Isaiah 54:8 In a little wrath I hid my face from thee for a moment; but with everlasting kindness will I have mercy on thee, saith the LORD thy Redeemer
Amen. God bless.
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