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Oh, I see. So when Jesus said He is the resurrection and the life, we need to interpret that as Jesus being the resurrection and eternal death? I think you've been smokin' Sciota's pipe...
You just do not understand the whole picture on the resurrection issue...
Christian universalism is the original gospel which was believed and taught by the vast majority of Christians throughout Asia minor in the first 500 years AD.
ET was only taught later in the west, and only became the orthodox teaching after Rome made Christianity the state religion. However you might like to make the teaching of UR into a relatively contemporary teaching, the fact is that it is not.
Most of the early Greek Fathers taught UR as well ... Here is a list of some of the fathers that taught UR.
UR is the true Gospel which the scriptures teach, which the Greek speaking fathers taught and believed. ET was believed and taught by the Latin speaking western Church under the Roman School in Carthage ...
But, our God is not a Greek concept but a Hebrew one...
But, our God is not a Greek concept but a Hebrew one...
And the Hebrew people didn't even recognize him for who he was ... And they still do not. So what is your point? The fact is that the original manuscripts of the new testament were written in Koine Greek, and native Greek speaking Christians of the early church did not see "eternal torment" in the new testament.
God bless ...
Last edited by Ironmaw1776; 03-16-2010 at 12:16 PM..
It's not His lineage that we should know Him by, but His spirit.
Good point, we are not to know Christ according to his flesh:
2Co 5:16 Wherefore henceforth know we no man after the flesh: yea, though we have known Christ after the flesh, yet now henceforth know we him no more.
2Co 5:16 Wherefore henceforth know we no man after the flesh: yea, though we have known Christ after the flesh, yet now henceforth know we him no more.
If we are not to know anyone (no man) after the flesh, how then are we to know our fellow man? Are we also to know unbelievers as being objectively saved (and being our brethren) in Christ, even though they do not have faith, or subjectively bear any fruits of the Spirit?
I think this verse ties in well with this scripture here:
Gal 4:23 But he who was of the bondwoman was born after the flesh; but he of the freewoman was by promise.
Gal 4:26 But Jerusalem which is above is free, which is the mother of us all.
Gal 4:31 So then, brethren, we are not children of the bondwoman, but of the free.
If we are not to know any man after the flesh (born of the bondwoman), shouldn't we know them according to the freewoman by promise? I think so.
And if so, wouldn't that be reason to:
Mat 5:43 Ye have heard that it hath been said, Thou shalt love thy neighbour, and hate thine enemy.
Mat 5:44 But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;
Mat 5:45 That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust.
Mat 5:46 For if ye love them which love you, what reward have ye? do not even the publicans the same?
Mat 5:47 And if ye salute your brethren only, what do ye more than others? do not even the publicans so?
Mat 5:48 Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.
It would seem we are to love our enemies according to the promise (the Gospel). And if we are, doesn't this tell us that all men are our brethren in Christ (objectively speaking), born of the freewoman, and saved by the promise?
2Co 5:16 Wherefore henceforth know we no man after the flesh: yea, though we have known Christ after the flesh, yet now henceforth know we him no more.
If we are not to know anyone (no man) after the flesh, how then are we to know our fellow man? Are we also to know unbelievers as being objectively saved (and being our brethren) in Christ, even though they do not have faith, or subjectively bear any fruits of the Spirit?
I think this verse ties in well with this scripture here:
Gal 4:23 But he who was of the bondwoman was born after the flesh; but he of the freewoman was by promise.
Gal 4:26 But Jerusalem which is above is free, which is the mother of us all.
Gal 4:31 So then, brethren, we are not children of the bondwoman, but of the free.
If we are not to know any man after the flesh (born of the bondwoman), shouldn't we know them according to the freewoman by promise? I think so.
And if so, wouldn't that be reason to:
Mat 5:43 Ye have heard that it hath been said, Thou shalt love thy neighbour, and hate thine enemy.
Mat 5:44 But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;
Mat 5:45 That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust.
Mat 5:46 For if ye love them which love you, what reward have ye? do not even the publicans the same?
Mat 5:47 And if ye salute your brethren only, what do ye more than others? do not even the publicans so?
Mat 5:48 Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.
It would seem we are to love our enemies according to the promise (the Gospel). And if we are, doesn't this tell us that all men are our brethren in Christ (objectively speaking), born of the freewoman, and saved by the promise?
2Co 5:16 Wherefore henceforth know we no man after the flesh: yea, though we have known Christ after the flesh, yet now henceforth know we him no more.
If we are not to know anyone (no man) after the flesh, how then are we to know our fellow man? Are we also to know unbelievers as being objectively saved (and being our brethren) in Christ, even though they do not have faith, or subjectively bear any fruits of the Spirit?
I think this verse ties in well with this scripture here:
Gal 4:23 But he who was of the bondwoman was born after the flesh; but he of the freewoman was by promise.
Gal 4:26 But Jerusalem which is above is free, which is the mother of us all.
Gal 4:31 So then, brethren, we are not children of the bondwoman, but of the free.
If we are not to know any man after the flesh (born of the bondwoman), shouldn't we know them according to the freewoman by promise? I think so.
And if so, wouldn't that be reason to:
Mat 5:43 Ye have heard that it hath been said, Thou shalt love thy neighbour, and hate thine enemy.
Mat 5:44 But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;
Mat 5:45 That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust.
Mat 5:46 For if ye love them which love you, what reward have ye? do not even the publicans the same?
Mat 5:47 And if ye salute your brethren only, what do ye more than others? do not even the publicans so?
Mat 5:48 Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.
It would seem we are to love our enemies according to the promise (the Gospel). And if we are, doesn't this tell us that all men are our brethren in Christ (objectively speaking), born of the freewoman, and saved by the promise?
Any comments?
A choice post 'Bama.
We are to see every man for the price that was paid for them (see the blood when you look at people). If God looks on the heart - and not on the outward - so then should we. But this is a work of God in us, and we should cry out for Him to do it.
2Co 5:16 Wherefore henceforth know we no man after the flesh: yea, though we have known Christ after the flesh, yet now henceforth know we him no more.
If we are not to know anyone (no man) after the flesh, how then are we to know our fellow man? Are we also to know unbelievers as being objectively saved (our brethren) in Christ, even though they do not have faith, or subjectively bear any fruits of the Spirit?
I think this verse ties in well with this scripture here:
Gal 4:23 But he who was of the bondwoman was born after the flesh; but he of the freewoman was by promise.
Gal 4:26 But Jerusalem which is above is free, which is the mother of us all.
Gal 4:31 So then, brethren, we are not children of the bondwoman, but of the free.
If we are not to know any man after the flesh (born of the bondwoman), shouldn't we know them according to the freewoman by promise? I think so.
And if so, wouldn't that be reason to:
Mat 5:43 Ye have heard that it hath been said, Thou shalt love thy neighbour, and hate thine enemy.
Mat 5:44 But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;
Mat 5:45 That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust.
Mat 5:46 For if ye love them which love you, what reward have ye? do not even the publicans the same?
Mat 5:47 And if ye salute your brethren only, what do ye more than others? do not even the publicans so?
Mat 5:48 Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.
It would seem we are to love our enemies according to the promise (the Gospel). And if we are, doesn't this tell us that all men are our brethren in Christ (objectively speaking), born of the freewoman, and saved by the promise?
Any comments?
Well put and Yes, I do believe that all men are our brothers, some are in Christ now others will be in Christ.
1Pe 5:9 Whom resist stedfast in the faith, knowing that the same afflictions are accomplished in your brethren that are in the world.
Genesis warns man that if he sins he will die. Adam died and all men have died since.
Then the Bible says "As in Adam ALL die even so in Christ shall ALL be made alive" reversing the first death. It also says that "God was in Christ reconciling the WORLD to Himself" and "through one act of righteousness, ALL men were justified."
Now, if you are a Christian, you must substitute the word "all" wherever it appears in (+or -) 215 texts in the Bible with the word "some". But this presents a problem for Christians: namely, what to do with the REST. So, in order to solve this dilemma, they invented a doctrine called eternal conscious torment which, you will notice, is not death but life (the wicked must be kept alive in order to be tortured).
How strange! Christians believe the same thing Satan told Eve in the Garden of Eden "you will not die"!
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