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All eternal tormentors have "itching ears" that like to be scratched by listening to sermons that tell them that only people who believe like they do will avoid suffering forever in hell.
WHY I BELIEVE THE BIBLE TEACHES UNIVERSAL SALVATION New Page 3
The people who want to keep believing that the Bible proves that everyone deserves to suffer forever in hell just because they were born into this world, or because they don’t make the “right” choice before it’s “too late,” or that God created beings with a will so strong that they can irreversibly choose themselves into a state of eternal torment - these people will keep believing it because they want to.
The many entries in my guestbook that is accessed towards the bottom of my front page
at Hope 4 You, Roger Tutt
and the many entries at Visitor Comments and Testimonies
show just how much this information is helping people.
This was the information that enabled me to recover from a twelve year nervous breakdown (1966-78), and it gives me great joy to keep learning every day that it is helping more and more other people too!!
I’m 70 years old now.
Last edited by rodgertutt; 07-21-2009 at 03:54 PM..
Reason: correction
From my earliest memories of my childhood I was taught by my parents and Sunday School teachers and pastors that if I didn't believe the Bible is the word of God then God will throw me into hell fire after I died where I would suffer forever. These were the people on whom I relied to tell me the truth, and I was afraid not to believe them.
If I had not been taught that about the Bible I am sure that I would have chosen to live out my life as an agnostic, rather than put my trust in a book that taught that there is a god who is going to sustain people alive in an inescapable state of suffering forever.
I think that probably most of the agnosticim in this world is caused by people choosing to live out their lives as agnostics, rather than put their trust in a book that teaches such a god as the ETers claim to love and worship.
Many agnostics are decent people who try their best to be as good as they can be simply because they want to treat other people with love and respect, the same way that they would like to be treated too. But they would rather live out their life and die in the hope that they will find out that God is not like the eternal tormentors claim He is.
This has become my attitude too. Were it not for the fact that I have discovered evidence that the Bible does not teach an ET god, then I too would rather live out my life as an agnostic and hope for the best after I die, rather than pretend to love and respect an eternal hell god.
When I was seven my stepmother lit a fire in a beaker and said to me, "If you don't open your heart's door to Jesus and invite Him in, God is going to put you into a fire much bigger and hotter than that after you die and He will never ever let you get out of it.”
So in my heart I prayed the way she said that I had to.
Awhile later she said it's obvious that you still are not saved because you are still such a bad boy.
At that point in time I felt totally hopeless, and I was sure that God had given up on me.
My Dad used to beat me with a bamboo cane repeatedly shouting "In Jesus Name, in Jesus Name," until the welts on my legs would bleed. He told me that it was easy to tell at an early age that I was going to go to hell.
Then they both sent me away to a foster home because they could no longer cope with my bad behavior. My real mother had died giving birth to me. My Dad's second wife had died at child birth too but the child did not live either.
So at the age of seven I became convinced that everyone had given up on me, including God.
Later, at the age of 28 (I'm 70 now) I began a twelve year nervous breakdown over my inability to successfully emotionally cope with the idea that God lets any creature suffer forever. I was only able to recover by gradually learning that there are no verses in the Bible that teach endless suffering in hell for anyone. See
BIBLE THREATENINGS EXPLAINED – John Wesley Hanson Bible Threatenings Explained
From Rodger Tutt in Toronto, Canada
“That God may be All in all” 1Cor.15:28
My name is Rodger Tutt, and I am the starter of this thread.
I live in Toronto, Canada, and I’m 70 years old.
I’m a Christian Biblical Universal Transformationist.
Before you brush off my assertion by saying “there is no such a thing,” think about the following.
MY TRIBUTE TO RAY PRINZING
Ray Prinzing is my hero and mentor. His writings can be Googled up and read online. Just type in Ray Prinzing.
During my twelve year nervous breakdown caused by my inability to emotionally cope with the idea that God lets any creature suffer forever in hell, every morning, as I washed my family’s dishes, I would listen to one of Ray Prinzing’s many tapes.
I have listened to 178 of them several times, and 23 of them many times
In addition to these tapes, I always read every issue of his periodical GOSPEL ECHOES which he later renamed LETTERS OF TRUTH and gleaned many pages of his writings into my personal journal.
Many people have a hero, someone in their life that made a contribution to their welfare so significant that it is far above the influence that anyone else has had.
Ray Prinzing is that hero to me.
For several years my 96 year old dad called me from his nursing home each evening. Each time he called I read a portion of my over four thousand page journal to him, and many of these readings are the gleanings that I wrote from Ray Prinzing’s writings and tapes. Many nights my dad fell asleep listening to one of Ray’s tapes.
As I listened to Ray’s tapes during my nervous breakdown (1966-78) I gradually became more and more sure that I was going to recover. The contents of his tapes gave me the courage, in 1978, to take a public stand that I believe that the Bible teaches universal transformation, not endless suffering in hell, or even annihilation. (I’m 70 years old now)
My panic attacks completely stopped.
And now I spend most of my time offering people, in various ways, the information that helped me recover and helps me stayed recovered, and I am pleased to report that I have a lot of evidence that the info I post has helped, and is helping many other people in the same way that it helped me.
Ray Prinzing has now passed on, but his influence is so wide spread that he will not be forgotten on this earth for many, many years, if ever. And that is a very good thing!
The entire series of fifteen chapters by J. Preston Eby on this subject can be accessed at Savior of the World Series
His writing specifically on universal transformation is at The Restitution of All Things SEE ESPECIALLY THE VERY LAST PARAGRAPH IN THAT ARTICLE
The contents of the writings and tapes of Ray Prinzing are the reasons why I didn't commit suicide during 1966-78, or be locked away for life in a mental hospital.
Last edited by rodgertutt; 07-21-2009 at 04:11 PM..
Reason: addition
The contents of the writings and tapes of Ray Prinzing are the reasons why I didn't commit suicide during 1966-78, or be locked away for life in a mental hospital.
Imagine how many have died in sorrow with the teachings that God has given up on them, or how many have been put to death by those preaching that God hated them.
All the while, their persecutors say "God is love".
Quote:
Thus saith the LORD concerning the prophets that make my people err, that bite with their teeth, and cry, Peace; and he that putteth not into their mouths, they even prepare war against him.
Therefore night shall be unto you, that ye shall not have a vision; and it shall be dark unto you, that ye shall not divine; and the sun shall go down over the prophets, and the day shall be dark over them.
Then shall the seers be ashamed, and the diviners confounded: yea, they shall all cover their lips; for there is no answer of God.
But truly I am full of power by the spirit of the LORD, and of judgment, and of might, to declare unto Jacob his transgression, and to Israel his sin.
Hear this, I pray you, ye heads of the house of Jacob, and princes of the house of Israel, that abhor judgment, and pervert all equity.
They build up Zion with blood, and Jerusalem with iniquity.
The heads thereof judge for reward, and the priests thereof teach for hire, and the prophets thereof divine for money: yet will they lean upon the LORD, and say, Is not the LORD among us? none evil can come upon us.
Therefore shall Zion for your sake be plowed as a field, and Jerusalem shall become heaps, and the mountain of the house as the high places of the forest. Mic 3:6-12
John 3:36 (King James Version) "He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him."
John 3:36 (New International Version)
"Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life, but whoever rejects the Son will not see life, for God's wrath remains on him."
Luke 10:16
"He who listens to you listens to me; he who rejects you rejects me; but he who rejects me rejects him who sent me."
Believers in Eternal Torture claim that they don't have itching ears ... Whatever the case may be, it sure is apparent that most of them have itching trigger fingers!
Twin.Spins reply: Don't need a better translation, I don't have itching ears. 2 Timothy 4:3
I asked earlier
Can you tell me how the word aion and aionion can mean both age which has a beginning and an end and also mean eternal which has no beginning and end. To communicate ideas properly words need to have consistent meanings.
If aion and aionios mean eternal that would mean that these passages make no sense
Mat 12:32 And whosoever speaketh a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but whosoever speaketh against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this (world) ETERNAL? , neither in the world to come.
Mat 13:22 He also that received seed among the thorns is he that heareth the word; and the care of this (world) ETERNAL? , and the deceitfulness of riches, choke the word, and he becometh unfruitful.
Mat 13:39 The enemy that sowed them is the devil; the harvest is the end of the (world) ETERNAL?; and the reapers are the angels.
Mat 13:40 As therefore the tares are gathered and burned in the fire; so shall it be in the end of this (world) ETERNAL?.
Mat 13:49 So shall it be at the end of the (world) ETERNAL?: the angels shall come forth, and sever the wicked from among the just,
Mat 24:3 And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the (world) ETERNAL??
Mat 28:20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the (world) ETERNAL?. Amen.
Luk 20:34 And Jesus answering said unto them, The children of this(world) ETERNAL? marry, and are given in marriage:
Luk 20:35 But they which shall be accounted worthy to obtain that(world) ETERNAL???, and the resurrection from the dead, neither marry, nor are given in marriage:
It seems that the majority of times it is translated as eternal is when it has anything to do with life or damnation.
So it seems that if it relates to life and damnation it is translated eternal with not beginning and end and if it is used relating to anything else it is translated as having beginning and endings relating to world/age. To me this seems biased translating.
I bet the prospect fills your heart with joy unspeakable and full of glory, judging by the smiley icon you've posted
Quote:
All eternal tormentors have "itching ears" that like to be scratched by listening to sermons that tell them that only people who believe like they do will avoid suffering forever in hell.
Having being on forums for a while now, I can honestly testify to this statement as being completely true, words posted on forums don't wear phony masks of empathy or sympathy
Last edited by TheUnknown67; 07-21-2009 at 06:16 PM..
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A bit about my past
