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Thank you for the elaboration. I have things at home to take care of so I cannot spend much time here tonight.. I appreciate you covering my back brother Mike..
Go back and reread it. It says there will be no more sorrow, no more pain, and no more death. Period.
No it is talking about all curses, they have been removed.
Wow I can feel you are worried about me. Don't be, please. God will work it out with me. I have faith in Him.
But you are wrong that Rev 22:17 is talking about believers ONLY. Believers ALREADY HAVE the water of life (which is Christ). This is speaking to those who are thirsty: those who do not have the water of life (unbelievers). Let them come.
Did you read verse 14? If you wash your robes (signifying becoming righteous), you are can enter the gates of the city. The gates NEVER close. Outside are the immoral - they have not washed their robes... yet.
But feel free to interpret it your way if that makes you feel better. Heaven won't be heaven if suffering is still in existence.
Peace out Raelyn.
I am not saying that there will be suffering in heaven, quite the contrary.. therre is no sin what-so-ever in heaven. But there is another place where other non-believers go... Not everyone goes to heaven... that is totally unbiblical.
Originally Posted by Mike555
Keep in mind that those unbelievers who are on the earth when Christ returns (Matthew 25:41) are thrown into the lake of fire, not Hades, but the lake of fire along with the beast and the false prophet a full thousand years before the Great White Throne judgment, and those unbelievers who are now in Hades (Luke 16) are currently in conscious torment and after the Millennium they will be resurrected into bodies designed for the lake of fire where they will spend eternity.
Maybe you need to read a bit closer. Here use these glasses:
I am not saying that there will be suffering in heaven, quite the contrary.. therre is no sin what-so-ever in heaven. But there is another place where other believers go... Not everyone goes to heaven... that is totally unbiblical.
Rev 21:4 And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.
And there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain.......... except in hell?
There is much to be said about rejection. Especially the rejection of truth. Here are a few examples. To reject Christ is to reject truth. Your choice and your consequence.. Maybe that 10-foot pole will save you from your future then...but I doubt it.
I Chron 289
"And you, my son Solomon, acknowledge the God of your father, and serve him with wholehearted devotion and with a willing mind, for the LORD searches every heart and understands every motive behind the thoughts. If you seek him, he will be found by you; but if you forsake him, he will reject you forever.
I Thess 4:3
3It is God's will that you should be sanctified: that you should avoid sexual immorality; 4that each of you should learn to control his own body[a] in a way that is holy and honorable, 5not in passionate lust like the heathen, who do not know God; 6and that in this matter no one should wrong his brother or take advantage of him. The Lord will punish men for all such sins, as we have already told you and warned you. 7For God did not call us to be impure, but to live a holy life. 8Therefore, he who rejects this instruction does not reject man but God, who gives you his Holy Spirit. chosen you to build a temple as a sanctuary. Be strong and do the work."
The word is clear he chose you , drew/dragged you, called you, sought you, caused you to hear his voice and you deny all of this by saying you played your part in iyour own salvation
8For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God—
In otherwords it had nowt (good old staffordshire slang) to do with you.
The word is clear he chose you , drew/dragged you, called you, sought you, caused you to hear his voice and you deny all of this by saying you played your part in iyour own salvation
8For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God—
In otherwords it had nowt (good old staffordshire slang) to do with you.
It's you who is rejecting basic scripture
What if God calls many people to Him and some reject him, some don't. Then how do you explain your theology or belief?
Just because that scripture says that doesn't mean it just pertains to those who accept Him???
Nope.. because my child is a child, but when my child grows up and becomes able to reason and make his own decisions or moves out of the house and he plays in the street knowing the consequence and gets hit by a car and dies who's fault is it? The parent or the child?
My child will eventually (when he is trained or taught) be responsible for his own choice.. In other words if my child ends up a crack dealer selling drugs to kids then gets arrested and thrown in jail...it is certainly not because I didn't love him or teach him not to do those things. It is because he chose not to listen and therefore reaped the consequence.
Indeed ...
And even as your child is to you in this life and in this world, so is the soul of every living being to God who created them, all of us the offspring of God.
Act 17:26-28
And hath made of one blood all nations of men for to dwell on all the face of the earth, and hath determined the times before appointed, and the bounds of their habitation; That they should seek the Lord, if haply they might feel after him, and find him, though he be not far from every one of us:
For in him we live, and move, and have our being; as certain also of your own poets have said, For we are also his offspring.
And these words Paul spoke to the stoics ... All of whom were yet at the time of his speaking unbelievers, though some few among them did come to believe at that time having been persuaded of the spirit of the gospel which Paul spoke ...
Just as your child is now unlearned and at the mercy of naivety and innocence, without understanding of the things of the world. So all of us are bound to the carnal nature, and to sin which rules it until we are set free by the working within us of the spirit of God which leads us, nay drags us through much resisting to the cross of Christ, whereby we are made to be at liberty from the sinful man, and are become bond servants of our lord who bought us at the price of his own righteous life, and with the currency of his own precious blood.
Without the work of the spirit of Christ within us to renew our minds from carnal to spiritual through the mystery of faith by election, we are unable to receive the things of the spirit of God, and thus believe and repent.
Even if you are an adult and are not a believer, the fact that you don't believe is because God has not yet worked within you to have faith and to believe. Just as you train your child and teach them through strict discipline and great love, so to will God work out the salvation of all creation through his enduring mercy, his lasting patience, through the purifying fire of his judgments unto correction, and unfathomable love, each in their own order. Though we were at one time illegitimate offspring some of us become legitimate hears of kingdom of Christ through faith in this life, and all others will become legitimate subjects and citizens of the kingdom of God, after all judgments and mercies ... When the truth has been established in the hearts of all things, in heaven and in earth and beneath earth, things visible and invisible, all powers and principalities and rulers and authorities and all the kindred of all the nations of the earth, and when every tongue confesses that Christ is lord ... Then God shall be all and in all at last, and the mysteries of his plan and purpose for the ages will be revealed and consummated so that his perfect will is at last manifest in all things.
To sum this all up ... God will teach everyone of his offspring, which is all of us, the truth and will have all of us be saved. Some few of us in this life through his influence and chastening here and now, and the rest through fiery judgments after which those that are wicked and do not believe will be corrected and come to a knowledge of the truth.
What if God calls many people to Him and some reject him, some don't. Then how do you explain your theology or belief?
Just because that scripture says that doesn't mean it just pertains to those who accept Him???
Why are you fighting this you had and have nothing to do with you coming to faith in the Lord , he drew you to it
9This is a trustworthy saying that deserves full acceptance10(and for this we labor and strive), that we have put our hope in the living God, who is the Savior of all men, and especially of those who believe.
How come you cannot accept this deserving trustworthy saying ?
If God calls ?
Jesus said "If i be lifted up i will draw all men unto me"
I was accused of being more Unitarian than Universal, but I have always believed in Christ. If this is the very definition of the difference between the two than did I not fall under the definition of Universal?
Look - to put this straight. UUC in it's modern day form accepts all beliefs/non- beliefs. You can believe in 700 God's if you wish or be an atheist or anything in between. This is considered very liberal, no?
In the UUC you can pretty much find what ever you want to believe and go for it. The roots of "Unitarianism" are gone so your wiki reference was worthless to the point being made. CU is not straight up universalism because the basic tentants of the Christian faith stay intact. In fact MANY can be just as dogmatic about the trinity and bible inerrancy etc as any other group.
The CUs on this board want it clear that they are bible believing, born again, Spirit filled worshipers of the one true God - nothing more/nothing less. In Christ, cleansed from sin, filled with eternal life.
What you described as yourself as is the type of univeralist which has some kind of liberal theological bent, self deluded, bible mocking lost person (ie: you did not really know God). All the CUs are saying is that is NOT what they are.
I'm hope this clears things up.
(BTW - I don't claim to be a Christian in the traditional sense and so have nothing to defend/attack I just happen to be very familiar with many on this board and have a lot of experience with various belief systems - so I try to help clarify things).
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