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I believe eternity is not a concept which is related to time, but that it really represents absolute being and or reality. Eternity is in the now, it is a state of completion which Creation did arise from and will return to. Time as we know it is merely the eventual manifestation of what already is and has always been and will always be.
If that makes any sense to anyone at all ...
Eternity is AWAYS was, ALWAYS is and ALWAYS will be.
I tend to say that aiónios might have a common and a philosophical meaning, the common meaning might be something like enduring, perpetual, continous, but not everlasting, the philosophical meaning an abstract eternity.
the book the Jerome conspiracy (link (http://thejeromeconspiracy.com/pdf/The_Jerome_Conspiracy.pdf - broken link) to pdf.file, warning its huge) presents several examples, of which I was able to confirm several on perseus.org
"The second wall is in all other respects like the first but of twice the height. The third circuit is rectangular in plan, and is sixty cubits in height, built of a stone hard and naturally durable (aiónios)."
The idea of a philosophical eternity we find in Plato, Plat. Laws 10.904a
"Thus:—Since our King saw that all actions involve soul, and contain much good and much evil, and that body and soul are, when generated, indestructible but not eternal (aiónios)..."
Again, he speaks of that which is indestructible, (anolethron) and not aiónion. He places the two words in contrast, whereas, had he intended to use aiónion as meaning endless, he would have said indestructible and aiónion.
I think he is in error here, the soul, being indestructible (according to Plato) means it will exist endlessly, but "eternal" in a philosophical sense means more than merely endlessly, it has nothing to do with duration altogether, "...for their life is not time, but the beautiful model of time, eternity (æon); and in eternity (æon) nothing is past and nothing is future, but everything is present only". (Philo, on the unchangeableness of God)
the universalist scholar Barcley says "The word for eternal is aionios. It means more than everlasting, for Plato - who may have invented the word - plainly says that a thing may be everlasting and still not be aionios. The simplest way to out it is that aionios cannot be used properly of anyone but God; it is the word uniquely, as Plato saw it, of God."
While I agree with Barcley on the philosophic meaning of "eternal" I do not agree that the apostles used aiónios with this Platonic notion of a philosophical eternity in the sense of the life and timeless sphere of the immortals/gods in a heathen sense or of the only God in a monotheistic Jewish or Christian sense.
A German author says that "The idea of an unchangeable and timeless condition was first put inside the term aión by Plato as a philosophically caused step for the distinction with chronos (i.e. time), as the moving image of the Platonic archetypes (theory of forms or ideas), as seen e.g. in Plato's Timaios. Aión in Plato is an artificial term of a pure realm of ideas without relation to the common language of that age."
"Eternal punishment" in the sense of a philosophical eternity needn't mean endless punishment; for things that belong to time are temporal, however they do not last throughout all time but merely pertain to time; in like manner can eternal mean merely pertaining to eternity, the divine and timeless realm, but not necessarily lasting throughout eternity which is impossible anyway for humans are born in time.
Diodorus Siculus on the other hand seems to use aiónios in its propaply common meaning without philosophical notion, so does Josephus e.g.
Eternity means to ALWAYS have existed as to meaning also ALWAYS will exist.
That definition alone refutes those that preach eternal torment since they don't also acknowledge the definition of the word in its entirety. They don't acknowledge that to say that someone will be eternally tormented is to mean actually that someone has never not been tormented.
Upon judgement of the wicked soul, torment will "always exist". One must first be resurrected, then AIONIOS time begins.
Last edited by sciotamicks; 03-01-2010 at 03:44 PM..
How do you explain all the aionios things in the Old Testament which have long ago passed?
You need to give examples so we can address them, surrounded by their context.
Let's take this one for example:
Exo 12:14 And this day shall be unto you for a memorial; and ye shall keep it a feast to the LORD throughout your generations; ye shall keep it a feast by an ordinance for ever - αἰώνιον.
Did this cease?
No, this was a type fulfilled in the sacrifice of Christ, therefore, it continues to carry on forever - αἰώνιον
Last edited by sciotamicks; 03-01-2010 at 06:07 PM..
Reason: typo
Of course that feast ceased when the tabernacle was destroyed and they were held captive in different lands. It has also ceased for over two thousand years.
Of course that feast ceased when the tabernacle was destroyed and they were held captive in different lands. It has also ceased for over two thousand years.
No...it never ceased. This ordinance was "FULIFLLED" in Christ, meaning it never ceased, and continued onward and continues today.
Christ fulfilled the Laws, He did not destroy them, so in reality, all these Laws based on the Old Covenant continue today all wrapped up in the worship of Jesus Christ. The beggarly elements passed on, but the spirit filled applicaiton of these laws are all summed up in one, Jesus Christ.
So, no, I disagree. It continues forever - aionios
Upon judgement of the wicked soul, torment will "always exist". One must first be resurrected, then AIONIOS time begins.
Eternity would mean that torment ALWAYS EXISTED as much as ALWAYS EXISTS and would mean as much as ALWAYS WILL EXITS. So this would mean that evil and wickedness are as old as God Himself and shall be as long as God exists Himself. That is what is preached ANYTIME you use the Word "ETERNAL" in describing the torment of the wicked.
Eternity would mean that torment ALWAYS EXISTED as much as ALWAYS EXISTS and would mean as much as ALWAYS WILL EXITS. So this would mean that evil and wickedness are as old as God Himself and shall be as long as God exists Himself. That is what is preached ANYTIME you use the Word "ETERNAL" in describing the torment of the wicked.
You are mistaken. It is determined when it begins based on the context and especially, the conjugation of the adjective itself, and in such in Matt - Eternal life or damnation, its conjugation denotes futurity based at the onset of resurrection. As for God's nature, it has always been.
In the Old Testament, the Hebrew word `olam is used for "eternity," sometimes in the sense of unlimited duration, sometimes in the sense of a cycle or an age, and sometimes, in later Hebrew, in the signification of world. The Hebrew `olam has, for its proper New Testament equivalent, aion, as signifying either time of particular duration, or the unending duration of time in general. Only, the Hebrew term primarily signified unlimited time, and only in a secondary sense represented a definite or specific period. Both the Hebrew and the Greek terms signify the world itself, as it moves in time, perpetually, or finite, whichever the surrounding context and sytax/conjugations calls for.
In the New Testament, aion and aionios are often used with the meaning "eternal," in the predominant sense of futurity. The word aion primarily signifies time, in the sense of age or generation. I t also comes to denote all that exists under time conditions, and, superimposed upon the temporal is only an ethical use, relative to the world's course. Therefore aion may be said to mean the subtle informing spirit of the world or cosmos, the totality of things. By Plato, in his Timaeus, aion was used of the eternal Being, whose counterpart, in the sense, world, is Time. To Aristotle, in speaking of the world, aion is the ultimate principle which, in itself, sums up all existence. In the New Testament, aion is found combined with prepositions in nearly three score and ten instances, where the idea of unlimited duration appears to be meant. This is the usual method of expressing eternity in the Septuagint also. The aionios of 2 Cor 4:18 must be eternal, in a temporal use or reference, else the antithesis and application of it would be rendered void of meaning and of no sense whatsoever.
While we look not at the things which are seen, but at the things which are not seen: for the things which are seen [are] temporal; but the things which are not seen [are] eternal.
In Rom 1:20 the word aidios is used of Divine action and rendered in the King James Version "eternal", the only other place in the New Testament where the word occurs being Jude 1:6, where the rendering is "everlasting," which accords with classical usage. Yet the presence of the idea of eternal in these passages does not impair the fact that aion and aionios are, in their natural and obvious connotation, the usual New Testament words for expressing the idea of eternal, and this holds strikingly true of the Septuagint as well. For, from the idea of aeonian/eonian life, there is no reason to suppose the notion of duration excluded. The word aionios is sometimes used in the futurist signification, but often also, in the New Testament, it is concerned rather with the quality, than with the quantity orduration of life (which I have expressed at great lengths in one of our studies here at City Data (calling all UR #2). By the continual attachment of aionios to life, in this conception of the spiritual or Divine life in man, the aeonian conception was saved from becoming sterile and is renedered to exists concurrently and perpetually as long as time itself in both ethereal and earthly existence.
Last edited by sciotamicks; 03-01-2010 at 09:14 PM..
Reason: typos
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