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I have studied God's Word and I'm telling you that any Greek professor that is telling you that aionios means eternal is WRONG.
Again, I set before you a challenge. Find where the understanding I have given of aionios is wrong.
Really? I have already presented this case over and over again. I don't really like repeating myself, so it isn't a challenge for me at all, since I have already completed it.
Secondly, your understanding of AIONIOS, being that ALWAYS is correct. I never disagreed with you there. The context of AIOINIOS in the case of Resurrection in Matt, begins at the point of resurrection, not prior to, but at it's point. What is the resurrection Trettep?
Becoming born again. Right now, I have AIONIOS life, because I accepted Christ, I believe in Him and who He is, and He told me I will live eternally.
For the rebellious sinner, his resurrection happens at death, and he feels that sting of it, and he inherits AIONIOS damnation.
Remember, it is the context of AIONIOS that defines it, not just the word itself. Any Greek scholar will tell you that.
Find my thread Calling all UR #2, and read it again. I have sourced many individuals in that analysis, and I suggest stdying them at great lengths, as I have.
Becoming born again. Right now, I have AIONIOS life, because I accepted Christ, I believe in Him and who He is, and He told me I will live eternally.
For the rebellious sinner, his resurrection happens at death, and he feels that sting of it, and he inherits AIONIOS damnation.
So if you die does that mean you cease to live then live again? How is that eternal by definition?
Webster's has this for the synonyms of eternal:
1. permanent, unending. Eternal, endless, everlasting, perpetual imply lasting or going on without ceasing. That which is eternal is, by its nature, without beginning or end: God, the eternal Father. That which is endless never stops but goes on continuously as if in a circle: an endless succession of years. That which is everlasting will endure through all future time: a promise of everlasting life. Perpetual implies continuous renewal as far into the future as one can foresee: perpetual strife between nations. 3. timeless, immortal, deathless, undying, imperishable, indestructible.
Why are you looking outside of scripture for definitions?
Remember when we talked about the corporate body view?
Would you like to learn more about it?
Let me explain it to you briefly.....When I accepted Christ, I became a new creation. Jesus was demonstrating by His resurrection, as He stood in front of His disciples with the SAME body he had in the tomb, what He NATURE of resurrection is: freedom from Sin and Death that came "through the one man" Adam. One does not have to be whisked away from earth. One does not need a "new body" free from blemishes. One needs to be put to death in Christ (sown), and raised with Him in "newness of life" (raised). No new bodies needed. Only faith in the Resurrection, Jesus Christ, will do.
Paul said, we shall be "like" Him. Our resurrection is His resurrection. Any view that breaks down this correlation (as the traditional view, and even the Preterist "immortal body at death" view does) is false. In the view advocated above, the correspondence is set perfectly. I am alive here on earth, with blemishes, and in my physical body, YET, AT THE SAME TIME, I am free from Death and Sin, raised in newness of life and have eternal life. I shall not ever see death for "death has NO mastery over me....so, likewise COUNT YOURSELVES the same". That's the resurrection for us "alive and remaining" and for the "living" here on earth. As justification is imputed, so also resurrection is imputed. We are raised, just like Jesus. His death is our death - His life is our life. Period. When we no longer need our physical bodies, they, like His, simply go the way of the elements of the universe. But WE remain forever as members of His body, fully conscious, fully human (NOT FLESH but the SPIRIT), fully alive, forever, eternally with Him.
When I accepted Christ, I was put to death with Him, and raised with Him.
Last edited by sciotamicks; 03-02-2010 at 11:16 PM..
Why are you looking outside of scripture for definitions?
Remember when we talked about the corporate body view?
Would you like to learn more about it?
Let me explain it to you briefly.....When I accepted Christ, I became a new creation. Jesus was demonstrating by His resurrection, as He stood in front of His disciples with the SAME body he had in the tomb, what He NATURE of resurrection is: freedom from Sin and Death that came "through the one man" Adam. One does not have to be whisked away from earth. One does not need a "new body" free from blemishes. One needs to be put to death in Christ (sown), and raised with Him in "newness of life" (raised). No new bodies needed. Only faith in the Resurrection, Jesus Christ, will do.
Paul said, we shall be "like" Him. Our resurrection is His resurrection. Any view that breaks down this correlation (as the traditional view, and even the Preterist "immortal body at death" view does) is false. In the view advocated above, the correspondence is set perfectly. I am alive here on earth, with blemishes, and in my physical body, YET, AT THE SAME TIME, I am free from Death and Sin, raised in newness of life and have eternal life. I shall not ever see death for "death has NO mastery over me....so, likewise COUNT YOURSELVES the same". That's the resurrection for us "alive and remaining" and for the "living" here on earth. As justification is imputed, so also resurrection is imputed. We are raised, just like Jesus. His death is our death - His life is our life. Period. When we no longer need our physical bodies, they, like His, simply go the way of the elements of the universe. But WE remain forever as members of His body, fully conscious, fully human, fully alive, forever, eternally with Him.
When I accepted Christ, I was put to death with Him, and raised with Him.
sciotamicks,
Do you believe that being born again and resurrected happens individually when one accepts christ?
Becoming born again. Right now, I have AIONIOS life, because I accepted Christ, I believe in Him and who He is, and He told me I will live eternally.
For the rebellious sinner, his resurrection happens at death, and he feels that sting of it, and he inherits AIONIOS damnation.
Where in scripture does it say that if you believe in Christ and are born again you are resurrected then .........
and where does it say that the unbelievers are resurrected at their death and at that stage start their never ending damnation -----
Why are you looking outside of scripture for definitions?
Remember when we talked about the corporate body view?
Would you like to learn more about it?
Let me explain it to you briefly.....When I accepted Christ, I became a new creation. Jesus was demonstrating by His resurrection, as He stood in front of His disciples with the SAME body he had in the tomb, what He NATURE of resurrection is: freedom from Sin and Death that came "through the one man" Adam. One does not have to be whisked away from earth. One does not need a "new body" free from blemishes. One needs to be put to death in Christ (sown), and raised with Him in "newness of life" (raised). No new bodies needed. Only faith in the Resurrection, Jesus Christ, will do.
Paul said, we shall be "like" Him. Our resurrection is His resurrection. Any view that breaks down this correlation (as the traditional view, and even the Preterist "immortal body at death" view does) is false. In the view advocated above, the correspondence is set perfectly. I am alive here on earth, with blemishes, and in my physical body, YET, AT THE SAME TIME, I am free from Death and Sin, raised in newness of life and have eternal life. I shall not ever see death for "death has NO mastery over me....so, likewise COUNT YOURSELVES the same". That's the resurrection for us "alive and remaining" and for the "living" here on earth. As justification is imputed, so also resurrection is imputed. We are raised, just like Jesus. His death is our death - His life is our life. Period. When we no longer need our physical bodies, they, like His, simply go the way of the elements of the universe. But WE remain forever as members of His body, fully conscious, fully human (NOT FLESH but the SPIRIT), fully alive, forever, eternally with Him.
When I accepted Christ, I was put to death with Him, and raised with Him.
Okay... I see.
Dislaimer: MY opinion to follow.
I think if you die, then life cannot mean life in an eternal sense. So I'm thinking there is physical life and spiritual life. You can die and rise again spiritually but as far as your physical body we have proof that it decays.
What you are saying is that you will not physically die? or do I misunderstand.
Yes...my body will physically die, but I am a New Creation, in human spiritual body, which will continue on...AIONIOS forever.
His death is our death - His life is our life. Period. When we no longer need our physical bodies, they will simply go the way of the elements of the universe
The materialized body of the Risen Lord -- lacking blood -- was what God had granted so Jesus could become visible or manifest to His disciples as Peter, an eyewitness states, "The God raised this one on the third day and granted him to become visible." (Acts 10:40)
1 Peter 3:18 For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened (zōopoieō - raised) by the Spirit:
Our own conviction is that these "manifestations," often into locked rooms, was for the benefit of those witnesses to the resurrection and the result of God granting his Son to become visible by such means even as did angels in the past. (Genesis chapters 18 and 19). His appearances were done in such a fashion that none other than his disciples saw him. Jesus had said after His rising from the dead the world would not see Him, but His disciples would see Him again. (John 14:18-22) Peter testifies: "This (Jesus) The God raised up on the third day and He granted (Jesus) to become manifest, not to all the people, but to witnesses appointed beforehand." (Acts 10:40, 41)
Paul's 1 Cor 15 confirms this event in our victory in Christ Jesus, in that when we accept Him, we are sown, our physical body, although continues till our last breath, will decay as all bodies do, yet when we accept Christ, we are immediately clothed with the New Creation (we are raised), that continue on forever, never experiencing the sting of death. Our spiritual body doesn't experience the Sting of Death. That is the message in 1 Cor 15...not our physical body, as it is obvious that it does experience death.
This is what was received at the Parousia, members in Christ, from that point forward, to now and forever, will receive this gift, that was consummated and fulfilled in the Parousia. The resurrection of the Dead was the redemption of National Israel first (in the context of the Corinth church, the dead ones), but the Parousia was the gift received to them, and everyone else that is raised in Christ upon profession of faith from that point forward.
How can we not experience body death, if we receive another body, after death?
This is the error of the IBD view. We must be clothed with this raised body upon our initial experience of being "born again" of the spirit, in that our human spirit, not flesh, is clothed immediately with this Newly Created body in Christ, in that this specific body, never experiences the sting of death.
This is why Paul uses two types of bodies when referring to this particular event.
The Body in Adam - soma psychicon
The Body in Christ - soma pneumaticon
This soma psychicon or soul-like body was to be "offered up" as a sacrifice for the sins of the world - (Hebrews 10:5 and verse 10). As long as our Lord was in his flesh, it was as though there was a "curtain" or veil between earth and heaven - (Hebrews 10:20). Paul compared the flesh and blood of our Lord as pictured or typified by the ancient Israelite animal sacrifices whose bodies (soma) were burned up or destroyed - (Hebrews 13:11, 12) This would preclude, or to be perceived impossible, for the risen Christ to ascend into heaven with His own human body, His soma psychicon.
Some had known the Lord in His flesh. However, Paul states even if this were once so, it is no longer true: "Indeed, if we have known Christ according to the flesh, now we no longer know him thus." (2 Corinthians 5:16) Of course, if Christ were still a human in flesh though heavenly, Paul could not have said what he did.
Earlier in this same chapter Paul has described what happens to the soma psychicon, " ... our house, this tent, should be dissolved, we are to have a building from God -- not of human origin -- but everlasting in the heavens." (2 Corinthians 5:1) Here there is a "tent" and a "building." What "we" are as individuals reside within these dwellings but upon the resurrection we receive, not the tent we formerly lived in, but a new, and completely different "building."
Paul continues showing the human body of flesh, bone, and blood is to be put off and a new residence taken up, not of human origin.
2 Corinthians 5:2-6: "For in this dwelling house (the soma psychicon) we do indeed groan, earnestly desiring to put on the one for us from heaven (the soma pneumaticon), so that, having really put it on, we shall not be found naked (without either body). In fact, we who are in this tent (soma psychicon) groan, being weighed down; because we want, not to put it off, but to put on the other (soma pneumaticon) , that what is mortal may be swallowed up by life. Now he that produced us for this very thing is God, who gave us the token of what is to come, that is, the spirit. We are therefore always of good courage and know that, while we have our home in the body ("this tent" of human origin, the soma psychicon), we are absent from the Lord."
You must remember, these scriptures were prior to the Resurrection of the dead and Parousia, so these apostles had not received this body as of yet. But as Preterists, then it be must concluded that those in Christ from that point of Parousia onward, receive this very gift that the apostles yearned for. This is what the Parousia is all about...the gift of the soma pneumaticon, which I have now, that will never experience the sting of death.
This does not sound like Paul believed his "tent" or "body" was going to heaven in some spiritualized form. Nor does he ever indicate a disembodied spirit is later reunited with the former fleshly body in some kind of resurrection reunion. To Paul there are two bodies: one likened to a "tent" which can be taken down then folded up, and the other, compared to a "building" (oikodomen, a word related to the word Jesus is accused of using in Mark 14:58 - oikodomeso). One is to be "destroyed" and the other heavenly one to be ageless, everlasting "in the heavens." One is human, the other divine. One is mortal, the other immortal and AIONIOS.
So, was Jesus raised in the same human body, the soma psychicon, that was buried?
Paul’s answer is: " ... and the body which you are sowing is not the body you are going to become. ... Rather, God is giving to a body just as He wills." (1 Corinthians 15:37, 38)
The context here is the Resurrection of the Dead, the dead ones at the Corinth church, the ones who have fallen asleep. The context is the gift received to those dead, and those alive, and that is the incorruption, the soma pneumaticon, the Parousia, the completed work, fulfilled redemption and sanctification that Christ completed at the Cross and His Resurrection.
1 Cor 15:45 So also [is] the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption:
Paul says Jesus was raised or resurrected, not in a "flesh and blood" soma psychicon but the Risen Christ "became a life-giving spirit ... (for) flesh and blood cannot inherit the Kingdom of God." (1 Corinthians 15:45, 50)
Therefore, as Paul has it, our Lord was raised in a soma pneumaticon, a spirit-like body without blood and flesh. And Christ and Peter confirms this as well, upon being born again, although in the context of prior Resurrection of the Dead and Parousia:
1 Peter 3:18 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.
John 3:5-7 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and [of] the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.
So, in conclusion Kat, when we accept Christ, we are born again of the spirit, we are raised in incorruption, because when upon profession, we die with Him, and are raised incorruptible with Him, and therefore, this incorruption that we are already clothed with, will never, ever, experience the sting of death. Our body flesh will, but our body spirit, will not.
1 Cor 15:51-52 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed. In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
The underlining is those in Christ, from that point onward. I am raptured already
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