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I agree with James Coram's conclusion that, "It is an empty gesture to go through the motions of “giving all the glory to God,” while at the same time continually believing, thinking and often even insistently declaring that good decisions and acts are things which ultimately owe their existence to one’s own self, God having but made them “possible.” May He enlighten us to see, truly, that it is “in the grace of God” that “I am what I am” (1 Cor.15:10).
I agree with James Coram's conclusion that, "It is an empty gesture to go through the motions of “giving all the glory to God,” while at the same time continually believing, thinking and often even insistently declaring that good decisions and acts are things which ultimately owe their existence to one’s own self, God having but made them “possible.” May He enlighten us to see, truly, that it is “in the grace of God” that “I am what I am” (1 Cor.15:10).
I agree. I would also like to say that i have believed this for as long has i can remember, way before i'd ever even heard of UR. I also know plenty of christians that believe this too.So please do not dismiss it has a doctrine of UR.
If we are living in the glorious millennium or new earth which are supposed to be the greatest eons/ages of the ages before, then all I can say is that Christ and God failed and if this is as good as it gets (according to the preterist paradigm, we may as well all go out and kill ourselves.
Quote:
Originally Posted by sciotamicks
It is actually those who deny the Biblcal fulfillments who say God failed dear Eusebius....he did say "the kingdom is at hand"....which mean sjust what it means, and Paul said the kingdom was "about to come" which means none other than what it means. God succeeded in saving Israel, alll Israel, Jew and Gentile from Adam till eternity.
Dear Sciota, Yes, the kingdom was at hand and yes the Kingdom was about to come but then the secret was revealed to Paul as to why it was being put on hold and that secret is revealed in Romans 11
Rom 11:25-26 For I am not willing for you to be ignorant of this secret, brethren, lest you may be passing for prudent among yourselves, that callousness, in part, on Israel has come, until the complement of the nations may be entering." (26) And thus all Israel shall be saved, according as it is written, Arriving out of Zion shall be the Rescuer. He will be turning away irreverence from Jacob."
And in the beginning of Acts they asked the Lord this:
Act 1:6-7 Those, indeed, then, who are coming together, asked Him, saying, "Lord, art Thou at this time restoring the kingdom to Israel? (7) Yet He said to them, "Not yours is it to know times or eras which the Father placed in His own jurisdiction."
Acts is an historical account concerning the rejection of that kingdom by Israel and Israel being set aside. Now Israel has to wait for the complement of the nations to enter and then and only then will arriving out of Zion be the Rescuer.
This did not happen in 70 A.D.
The filling full of the nations of the body of Christ is not complete yet. The filling full of the body of Christ did not happen either in 70 A.D.
I believe that the spirit in required to accept Jesus, and i believe that an be proven scripturally.
there are many who are not even yet born again of the spirit who profess to believe, but they only provide lip service.
In order to truly believe, one must first be born of the spirit.
1 Corinthians 2:6-16
We do, however, speak a message of wisdom among the mature, but not the wisdom of this age or of the rulers of this age, who are coming to nothing. No, we speak of God’s secret wisdom, a wisdom that has been hidden and that God destined for our glory before time began. None of the rulers of this age understood it, for if they had, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory. However, as it is written:
“No eye has seen,
no ear has heard,
no mind has conceived
what God has prepared for those who love himâ€
but God has revealed it to us by his Spirit.
The Spirit searches all things, even the deep things of God. For who among men knows the thoughts of a man except the man’s spirit within him? In the same way no one knows the thoughts of God except the Spirit of God. We have not received the spirit of the world but the Spirit who is from God, that we may understandwhat God has freely given us. This is what we speak, not in words taught us by human wisdom but in words taught by the Spirit, expressing spiritual truths in spiritual words. The man without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him, and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually discerned. The spiritual man makes judgments about all things, but he himself is not subject to any man’s judgment:
“For who has known the mind of the Lord
that he may instruct him?†But we have the mind of Christ.
Thank you very much for the welcome and great post.
I agee with you. I think (and I could be wrong) that John 3:6 changes the way John 3:16,36 and other similarly use verses should be read. Because if not, you either have to say that belief in Christ isn't a spiritual matter or flesh can begat spirit. From what little experience I have, I'm not sure either points are biblically sound. jmo
Dear Sciota, Yes, the kingdom was at hand and yes the Kingdom was about to come but then the secret was revealed to Paul as to why it was being put on hold and that secret is revealed in Romans 11
Rom 11:25-26 For I am not willing for you to be ignorant of this secret, brethren, lest you may be passing for prudent among yourselves, that callousness, in part, on Israel has come, until the complement of the nations may be entering." (26) And thus all Israel shall be saved, according as it is written, Arriving out of Zion shall be the Rescuer. He will be turning away irreverence from Jacob."
And in the beginning of Acts they asked the Lord this:
Act 1:6-7 Those, indeed, then, who are coming together, asked Him, saying, "Lord, art Thou at this time restoring the kingdom to Israel? (7) Yet He said to them, "Not yours is it to know times or eras which the Father placed in His own jurisdiction."
Acts is an historical account concerning the rejection of that kingdom by Israel and Israel being set aside. Now Israel has to wait for the complement of the nations to enter and then and only then will arriving out of Zion be the Rescuer.
This did not happen in 70 A.D.
The filling full of the nations of the body of Christ is not complete yet. The filling full of the body of Christ did not happen either in 70 A.D.
Dear Eusebius,
The marriage is the consummation and the secret that is being spoken of here...indeed. Now, the question of when it happens/happened is something that is revealed in the Bible...you do know this correct? The Bible reveals the events that surround the marriage of the New Jerusalem and Christ.....it is there....would you like to know the most specific event that surrounds this marriage of the Body, Jew and Gentile, into Christ?
Everyone has an opinion.
Personally, I think it's a most excellent example of a true exegesis!
.
One part where he stumbles....
Only those who are called and chosen actually choose Christ. The ecclesia (OUT-CALLED ones) of the Thessalonians had chosen Him, and Paul could perceive (the results of) their choice: “having perceived, brethren beloved by God, your choice, for the evangel of our God did not come to you in word only, but in power also, and in holy spirit and in much assurance, according as you are aware” (1 Thess.1:4,5).
You misunderstand Paul's conversion. He believed because he saw what was revealed to Him of Christ...he understood who He was and what He was talking about.....the process is almost instantaneous...but being born again...is a result of belief. The scriptures tesify this in great detail.
You are wrong ... Faith is a fruit of the spirit, it is a fruit of our being spiritually reborn. Belief is the result of being born again, that is what the scriptures teach. One cannot choose to repent, repentance is given by God.
You boast of your wisdom and good decision making skills, if you truly believe that it is because of them that you became saved.
The marriage is the consummation and the secret that is being spoken of here...indeed. Now, the question of when it happens/happened is something that is revealed in the Bible...you do know this correct? The Bible reveals the events that surround the marriage of the New Jerusalem and Christ.....it is there....would you like to know the most specific event that surrounds this marriage of the Body, Jew and Gentile, into Christ?
The apostle Paul never said that the marriage is within the secret I quoted. The marriage has to do with the Circumcision believers. We of the Nations termed the Uncircumcision are called "The body of Christ."
The New Jerusalem does not descend upon the earth until after the millennial reign of Christ on the earth.
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Personally, this is the only scripture I need.
