Would you give up heaven to save those in hell? (testimony, Revelation)
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This is so inappropriate considering we believe hell is a true place where people are in torment this very second. I find this really offensive.
Just as offensive as I find the very idea of HELL truly existing as a place where people are in torment this very second... I don't think you grasp exactly what this means...
Tell me... why are those people in hell right now?
How ironic these verses come right before Christ teaches us how to know the relation of the heart to the mouth and defilement in the description of the parable.
15 And Peter answered and said to Him, "Explain the parable to us."
16 And He said, "Are you still lacking in understanding also?
17 "Do you not understand that everything that goes into the mouth passes into the stomach and is eliminated?
18 "But the things that proceed out of the mouth come from the heart, and those defile the man.
19 "For out of the heart come evil thoughts, murders, adulteries, fornicators, thefts, false witness, slanderers.
20 "These are the things which defile the man; but to eat with unwashed hands does not defile the man."
By this very scripture Christians can know who are like them and who are not like them. But lets focus a little bit on verse 19 a bit and that which comes from the heart.
Evil thoughts - condemning Christians for believeing the true scriptures and saying that hell does not exist.
Murders - daily persecutions of Christians in word or even forum for not failing to believe in His truths.
Adulteries - This can mean not so much physical acts, but spiritual adultery with the devil himself. In claiming God but teaching incorrect scriptures or making false claims or even questions.
Fornicators - Like adulteries they commit spiritual fornications
Thefts - Stealing Gods very word with no claim to it.
False Witness - Claiming those who know of hell are not really Christian of Christ or of God.
Slanders - The ends are justified by the means. All of the above are being committed by the imposter to this very end.
So now the question remains as before. And the choice is yours.
Actually it is ironic that these words of Jesus speak directly against the ET'ers and what they proclaim. I don't believe ET'ers (if they truly believe what they say) are born of the Spirit. But like Saul, I believe you, as well as they, will ultimately come out of darkness and unbelief and into the glorious light of the Gospel.
Like you suggested, let's focus a little more on verse 19, as it applies to modern day hypocrites, or rather the ET'ers before us, that speak against Jehovah God who justifies the ungodly:
Evil thoughts - ET'ers accuse God of casting man, whom He created in His own image, into a literal lake of fire for all eternity. And they do so with great pleasure and with great evil from their hearts. These thoughts emerge from a mind filled with malice and not the things of the Spirit.
Murderers - ET'ers accuse Christ's brethren for proclaiming the Good News of the Gospel to all His creation. If the ET'er could secretly have their way, they would gladly light us on fire right now, as their posts clearly demonstrate on these boards. What prevents their murderous rage is the hand of God protecting us in Christ. ET'ers have much in common with Saul, but little with Paul. Like the Pharisees of old, they speak knowledgeable concerning the doctrines of the bible, but have murder reigning in their hearts. They love speaking for God and setting fire to those who oppose the doctrines of man.
Adulteries - ET'ers take great carnal pleasure in pillaging and adulterating the very Church that Christ set up to bring His light and glorious Gospel to the world. The ET'ers neither know Christ nor His grace and pardon in their hearts. Consequently, they cannot speak of the Gospel to the world, nor testify concerning it to their fellow man.
Fornicators - These ET'ers are the same as the adulterers but now take their fornication to the streets as they proclaim the doctrines of man to those that pass by. Adultery for the ET'er is really not good enough. They want to commit their fornication with those whom Christ is seeking to save.
Thefts - ET'ers steel the grace of God from those whom Christ died for. They eternally condemn (in a literal lake of fire no less) and pass eternal judgment over those whom God has declared He will save, justify and bring to glory for His own Name's sake. ET'ers steal from God what God has proclaimed to the sinner. Namely, the salvation that Christ has accomplished for them.
False Witness - ET'ers bear false witness against God and claim He will not justify the ungodly by the blood of Jesus on the cross. The ET'er would rather testify, like the accuser, against the sinner and the redemption Christ has purchased on their behalf. But they only testify against themselves in not having the faith of Jesus in their hearts, and not believing that God will accomplish all His will and desire in the salvation of all.
Slanders - ET'ers slander and persecute the Holy Spirit that speaks to the world about the Gospel and God's will to save. What Christ seeks to save, the ET'er will seek to condemn. Where Christ brings a message of hope in truth, the ET'er will bring a message of wrath with malice. Where Christ brings pardon, the ET'er will seek revenge.
So yes, the ET'ers are the very hypocrites Jesus spoke of and that Isaiah gave prophecy concerning.
It just boggles my mind that some people can teach that people would burn in hell... what did Christ die for in their minds?
I would take their place... even just one.
What if the question God asks you at the judgment is: Will you give up your stay in heaven to free everyone in hell?
What would you say? Could you truly and from your heart say you would?
Would you burn all alone happily knowing everyone BUT you is in heaven with God?
I would. Without a thought... in fact I volunteer.
Give up heaven to save someone in hell? Spiritual socialism. Just not orthodox teaching. People make choices and they have consequences. That is the reality in this life and the next.
Just as offensive as I find the very idea of HELL truly existing as a place where people are in torment this very second... I don't think you grasp exactly what this means...
Tell me... why are those people in hell right now?
Why do you think I don't grasp what that means? I read a book called "23 Minutes in Hell" and the author said that he LITERALLY was in hell. Literally. Regardless if he really was there, it was an interesting book that takes verses from the Bible and describes what hell is like. I've been a Christian for many years and I get how horrible it is. I'm the one who believes in it so don't tell me that I don't grasp what it means.
I think I've explained why they are in hell about a dozen times or more.
John 3:16 "For God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten son that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have everlasting life" (emphasis mine). It doesn't say God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten son and everyone will be in heaven. No one who doesn't believe in Jesus Christ as their personal Lord and Savior will be in heaven.
Why do you think I don't grasp what that means? I read a book called "23 Minutes in Hell" and the author said that he LITERALLY was in hell. Literally. Regardless if he really was there, it was an interesting book that takes verses from the Bible and describes what hell is like. I've been a Christian for many years and I get how horrible it is. I'm the one who believes in it so don't tell me that I don't grasp what it means.
I think I've explained why they are in hell about a dozen times or more.
John 3:16 "For God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten son that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have everlasting life" (emphasis mine). It doesn't say God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten son and everyone will be in heaven. No one who doesn't believe in Jesus Christ as their personal Lord and Savior will be in heaven.
Unfortunately lack of belief is hardly a crime... and the very next verse says he was not sent to condemn the world but SAVE the world.
Unfortunately lack of belief is hardly a crime... and the very next verse says he was not sent to condemn the world but SAVE the world.
You are correct that He came to save the world and not condemn the world. In an ideal world, everyone would be saved because everyone would do what John 3:16 said to do, but not everyone believes in Him; therefore, they perish and do not have eternal life. Why are you ignoring what the Bible makes so clear?
You are correct that He came to save the world and not condemn the world. In an ideal world, everyone would be saved because everyone would do what John 3:16 said to do, but not everyone believes in Him; therefore, they perish and do not have eternal life. Why are you ignoring what the Bible makes so clear?
You are correct. So sad when people are blinded by the devil.
You are correct that He came to save the world and not condemn the world. In an ideal world, everyone would be saved because everyone would do what John 3:16 said to do, but not everyone believes in Him; therefore, they perish and do not have eternal life. Why are you ignoring what the Bible makes so clear?
What does perish mean? If I perish does that mean I burn forever?
And if it does what gives you that impression?
Perish in John 3:16 is apollumi which means bring, destroy, destroyed, dying, end, killed, lost, passed away, perish, put to death, ruined.
But is never translated "burning in hell forever"... So how does John 3:16 say people go to hell?
Also... is this a condition of salvation (belief) or just stating that people who believe will receive eternal life?
Do you think eternal life is heaven? (Jesus defines Eternal LIFE for us in John 17)
I'm trying to see why you think John 3:16 says people go to hell... I most certainly don't see it.
Why are you ignoring what the Bible makes so clear?
You mean like believing we chose Him when the bible makes it clear He chose us
John 15 verse 16
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